Friday, October 06, 2006

Draft Priorities, Part 2

Inframike posted a comment to the previous post on the draft priority system:

But... Shadow Priests and Discipline Priests have very different priorities :(

Exactly! That is why this system works. The mages/warlocks spend all of their picks on damage gear, while priests need to split their picks between damage gear and healing gear (can't let those uppity paladins get all the good stuff).

So what will end up happening is that the mages/warlocks will get the lion's share of damage gear, but priests will have priority on a few pieces, enough to treat them fairly.

Remember that the alternative is that mages/warlocks get priority on ALL damage gear, and priests get none. That's generally what happens now in priority-based loot systems. Free systems don't need to set priority rules, and wouldn't need to draft.

As an aside, I don't believe that there is such a thing as a Shadow Priest or a Discipline Priest. There is a Priest who is currently specced Shadow, and a Priest who is currently specced Discipline. People change specs, and thus need different gear for different situations. I was Retribution[1] yesterday, and today I'm Holy[2]. I still collected healing gear when Ret-specced, and I'll still bid on damage gear now that I'm Holy.

[1] 5/11/35 - Extreme damage (for paladins, anyways).

[2] 32/11/8 - I like to think of it as my Improved Seal of the Crusader build.

10 comments:

Thoma said...

That assumes the class leader decides that he's going to put some DPS gear in the mix for off-specs which is a bit of a stretch.

GSH said...

Yeah, there is an implicit assumption that your class leader is on your side when it comes to having gear of different types.

But if your class leader isn't, and your guild does priorities, you are pretty much out of luck.

Thoma said...

Yep, so here is an idea. Raid Roll the item. Completely fair and random.

Xias said...

I think that loot priority also depends on the focus of the guild.

Xias said...

Sorry your guild didn't work out Coriel. I was really interested in how it would have done in MC and beyond.

So what is next for you? I think you shouldn't give because you would make a great guild leader.

Psyae said...

Hey, it's Psyae.

I'd like to quote your entire "so you wanna be a raider" on my guild's forum as a kind of filter for players who potentially want to join.

I'd give proper credits, of course, but would like your "blessing" first. :)

Oh, and in regard to the fine line between raid and casual guilds, my solution works like this:

-started a guild early on in a server's life, made it family oriented, casual, but also catered to those who wanted to level
-when enough people started getting to level 60, they felt the temptation to join already existing hardcore raid guilds to see end-game content and get nice gear
-I saw friends disappearing, but I couldn't join them, since I felt an obligation to my guild
-my guild had become a "feeder" guild
-I didn't like that
-so, I made my own raid guild while keeping the old guild as is, and (here's the kicker) I let my old guild continue to be a feeder guild, but feeding to my own raid guild
-when we started, we were still having trouble with places like UBRS
-now, about three months later, we farm Hakkar, have beaten Kurinnaxx, Rajaxx, and Buru, and we're working on Ossirian, Onyxia, and MC
-at the same time, the family oriented, casual guild still exists and is thriving.
-anyone in the raid guild who needs a break from raiding can semi-retire by moving to the casual guild, and move back into the raid guild in the future, if desired
-the guilds are "sister guilds", and we share a chat channel
-raiders from the raid guild often help out the casual guild players do quests and level, and friendships are made and perpetuated (instead of divided between different guilds), and that, in turn, helps the raid guild because some of the casual guild players will eventually advance to the level they need to join the raid guild, and those friendships have already been forged
-anyway, it works, but needs a lot of devotion from everyone, especially the guild leader

keep up the good work on your blog, I enjoy it, and I wish you luck with your guild!

GSH said...

Psyae, sure, feel free to post it.

The two guild solution is interesting, but you must put a lot of effort into maintaining the link between the two guilds. I would guess that the natural inclination is for the two guilds to drift apart.

Thoma said...

Why not just merge them and use the seperate ranks to denote raider/non-raider. And then if you have an open spot you could get the odd non-raider into MC if they wanted.

Psyae said...

It does take a bit of effort.

Merging doesn't work. I tried that originally before I thought to create a raid-only guild.

Here's my reasoning for not merging:
(oh, and I'm notorious for my lists)

-the foundational guild is still family oriented, and has a broad player base; therefore the rules there about cursing, being rude, whatever, are fairly strict; in a raid-only guild, it's a bit more natural to let a bit of cursing happen, and you expect to have more mature players who can operate without being pampered or censored (and much prefer it that way)

-having only raiders in my raid guild allows me to, at a glance, see exactly what my resources are. Yes, I could feasibly do that with rankings in a mixed guild (and have tried it), but ultimately it gets way too confusing and unreliable

-having a raid guild as a separate guild has more of an impact on players who start in the foundational guild; that it's an active choice, not a natural progression, that moves the player from one guild to the other; and that it takes devotion and determination to stay

-it allows me to "retire" people, but not kick them out of the combined framework; so, if someone is consistently absent, but it's someone we like, we can say, hey, you're not really into this raiding thing, so why not hang out in the foundation guild for a bit till you're ready; again, this follows my accountability example, but still sets a bright line between casual and raid

-if Blizzard had a better guild system, like, being a member of multiple guilds, I would go for that in a heartbeat, and have a separate guild system within

-setting up ranks for a raid group within a catch-all guild that has its own ranking system is overwhelming and nearly impossible to do with the limitations of the game

There's so much more that just takes the experience of doing it to realize. But I think everyone is happy with the system in place.

Doeg said...

The casual guild + raiding guild seems to really be a good idea. Looks like it's working.

It does bring to mind a question, though, as a guild-less 52 warrior I consider endgame guild options in the near future.
A bit of background -- I enjoy questing, and enjoy instances even more... then a family member introduced me to AB, and that was really an adrenaline rush! Though I'll probably eventually choose to raid over PvP with this particular character (prot-specced 52 warrior), my level 39 feral druid alt is definitely very effective and fun in PvP. And there may be a niche for a prot-spec warrior in AV (don't know yet, but I will try it soon).

So... How about the person who wants to PvP?
Do you have a subgroup within your guilds that is a PvP group?
If a demand arose, would that be a 'division' within the raid guild, so that it would be:
-- the "hardcore players, level 60 raiders and PvP-ers", or
-- grounds to begin and maintain yet a third guild?

Thanks for the good posts so far, and I look forward to the discussion!