tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post2706166589970153305..comments2024-01-04T02:49:23.470-08:00Comments on Blessing of Kings: The Paladin CommunityRohanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-14579644261150675312009-04-05T18:53:00.000-07:002009-04-05T18:53:00.000-07:00Larry said..."Holy Paladins are not as great a hea...Larry said...<BR/><BR/>"Holy Paladins are not as great a healer once you get further into the endgame. This has been stated by several leading guilds that once other healing classes (Priests, Shamans, Druids) begin to gear up to a certain point for end-end-game content (The Eye, Hyjal, BT) that Paladin deficiencies become more apparent in the healing areas - only 2 heals, one big, one small - they're usually assigned to main tank heal because they lack shields and HoTs and have trouble healing multiple targets and in this case BoP is fairly useless. They ARE mana efficient, but the other healing classes have more and better tools with which to do their jobs once having your healers go OOM is less of a problem. That being said, there is still a misconception of Paladins being these enormously overpowered healers, but they're really not. They're good healers, but they're definitely not substantially better than other healing classes - but because for some reason, people seem to think they are, raiding Paladins are often forced to spec Holy. One of the biggest things any Paladin regardless of spec, brings to the raid is his/her Blessings. Having Paladins putting up Kings, Might, Wisdom and Salvation is a huge boon to the raid and it's worth bringing along at least 3 in a 25 man setting just for Blessings."<BR/><BR/>Although I do agree with Larry on knowing a paladin's limitations as multiple target healers,you need to also give credit due to those skilled players who can do amazing things with a mediocre build.It's all about who's driving the wheel when it comes to total effective healing.Marshalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10512776812185803630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-50956733922441516872008-10-15T16:37:00.000-07:002008-10-15T16:37:00.000-07:00I fully agree with what Larry said. As a ret pally...I fully agree with what Larry said. As a ret pally I was always expected to offtank mobs in raids. Being full ret specced it was difficult to hold aggro even with righteous fury. Then main tank who is also my GM would get a pissy about it. I was like come on dude, I am here for dps not tanking, if you need an offtank grab this druid or even your fury warrior, but he was always pulling me. At the end of the raid people would say stuff about me being at the bottom of the damage meter and I would have to constantly remind them that I offtanked for half the raid. It is the same with healing, even in my heal set my healing sucks, 0 pts in holy doesn't go far. I am not wasting my little mana to heal you when I need it for myself. This is why there are 3 diff specs and hybrid. I am ret, let me do my job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-46132217508673503162007-11-05T13:53:00.000-08:002007-11-05T13:53:00.000-08:00As I see it, the only real fluid hybrid gear in th...As I see it, the only real fluid hybrid gear in the game is owned by druids. Their DS3 set and Feral Arena gear has itemization for all 5 base stats, and +healing.<BR/><BR/>Well, druids are a hybrid class just as much as paladins/shaman. Why don't paladins and shaman see that kind of gear anymore?<BR/><BR/>People complained that they weren't allowed to pigeonhole themselves. Raiders didn't want to bring hybrids, they wanted people good at one job to fulfill one role within a certain spec. While they could spec for that, they couldn't gear for it.<BR/><BR/>Short of mish-mashing gear sets together, and working within some kind of weird 26/14/21ish spec, paladins can't be fluid hybrids, and even then it would most likely be a clumsy affair at best.<BR/><BR/>The game isn't effectively designed around them doing that either, Blizzard expects us not to hybrid anymore from what I've seen in raiding. The fifth-man element is gone when you have more than 5 people. Everything is sectioned in such a way that there's no good place for hybrids.<BR/><BR/>When I first rolled a paladin on alliance back around the time Naxx came out, I took many long looks at the talent calculators, trying to find a spec to maximize all 3 aspects of the raiding game within one character and the limited number of talent points I had. I couldn't find much, honestly, but wish I had.<BR/><BR/>The point is not to compete with anyone for top spot on the healing/damage meters, or to have the most damage mitigation in a raid. It's to do about half or even a third as good as those who are unable to do any of those things. To heal better than a priest with no points in holy, to tank better than a warrior with no points in prot, to dps better than a tank-spec'd character. To be able to do whatever is needed, based on the changing environments of the raiding experience.Zereihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211133946416640355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-55407184568733907102007-10-27T16:33:00.000-07:002007-10-27T16:33:00.000-07:00I don't think I've ever seen a holy paladin object...I don't think I've ever seen a holy paladin object to threat reduction for ret. Where on earth did you see that?! That seems totally irrational to me.<BR/><BR/>What I see (on the official forums anyway) is long ret->holy diatribes and occasional holy->ret sniping. I see that here too. It's pathetic.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I see myself as more effectively hybrid as 40/31/0 then anyone focusing mostly on ret.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-54003836536605226522007-10-26T02:17:00.000-07:002007-10-26T02:17:00.000-07:00"Rousseau said... Ahh, well hopefully you're happi..."Rousseau said... <BR/>Ahh, well hopefully you're happier now that the threat reduction won't be active when RF is up."<BR/><BR/>Is that true?<BR/><BR/>I cant check here at work! They block the WoW sites! Grrr!!!Alex - aka Firelighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521624147661620610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-6151156344127443932007-10-25T09:12:00.000-07:002007-10-25T09:12:00.000-07:00Ahh, well hopefully you're happier now that the th...Ahh, well hopefully you're happier now that the threat reduction won't be active when RF is up.Bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14667147687700902147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-17706219263833853992007-10-24T16:31:00.000-07:002007-10-24T16:31:00.000-07:00Kind of. See this post for more details.Kind of. See <A HREF="http://blessingofkings.blogspot.com/2007/10/threat-reduction.html" REL="nofollow">this post</A> for more details.Rohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-17430740255885505972007-10-24T16:26:00.000-07:002007-10-24T16:26:00.000-07:00Coriel-Am I to take it that your Hybrid stance mea...Coriel-<BR/><BR/>Am I to take it that your Hybrid stance means you disagree with the recent Fanaticism change that makes ret-prot hybrids harder?<BR/><BR/>You're right, our class is really funny.Bluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14667147687700902147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-88904361865507405342007-10-23T21:12:00.000-07:002007-10-23T21:12:00.000-07:00How then, does Paladins & Shamans as a whole get ...How then, does Paladins & Shamans as a whole get slotted into a Hybrid slot.....<BR/><BR/>When ever I complain about being an elemental shaman (caster) they call me a hybrid, but as an elemental build, I don't heal and I don't melee....so technically I'm not a hybrid I'm just a caster....<BR/><BR/>Same goes for Paladins, I still don't understand why blizzard don't just make all 3 specs indiviually viable, and allow them not to clash with one and other, for example if I was to spec full 61/0/0 in any three specs, as a shaman, Enhancement (DPS)/ Elemental (DPS) / Restoration (Healing), then I should be euqally as good as any other class, who does that 1 piticular thing as well...<BR/><BR/>Same goes for Paladins, they are Holy (Healing)/ Protection (Tanking)/ Retribution (DPS) but they don't do it....why??? Infact the recent changes to the shaman class in 2.3, escpecailly Elemental has made me close my account....I just hate being told my class as a whole is a Hybrid, when the game forces our hybrid behind to be pigeonhold into a specific field....for example a tanking paldin can't heal, lets face it a protection paladin doesnt heal a 5 man instance, and can't DPS to the same degree and retri can, I certainly wouldnt heal a 5 man as elemental, or as enhancement, so how can we be considered hybrids...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-72636421093273778102007-10-23T13:10:00.000-07:002007-10-23T13:10:00.000-07:00Blizzard does seem to believe that if you want to ...Blizzard does seem to believe that if you want to do something other than what you are spec'd for, it's time to respec. I can't cite, but I have definitely heard a Blizzard poster saying that with the money flowing as it is in TBC, you should be able to respec to do what is needed of you, when it is needed.<BR/><BR/>Thus, threat reduction deep in the Ret tree. This is a buff to dps, but a nerf to hybridity, at least fluid.<BR/><BR/>Not saying I agree with this, but that just seems to be Blizzard's stance. If you're that deep in Ret, stop off-tanking or don't put points in that talent.<BR/><BR/>With the spell damage on healing gear coming out, we may see a new way to dps/heal as a paladin, but not necessarily melee/heal since it is of course spell damage.Zereihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211133946416640355noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-86233353566292263052007-10-23T09:59:00.000-07:002007-10-23T09:59:00.000-07:00http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topi...http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2509266987&postId=25734462202&sid=1#0<BR/>My suggestion to solve the hybrid complaints to the current implementation of threat reduction to retribution.<BR/><BR/>Instead of putting it in Fanaticism, put it in 2H weapon spec. No sane ret/prot hybrid will try to tank with a 2H equipped... right? And it's still sufficiently high in the tree to be found only on primarily retribution paladins.<BR/><BR/>-Baelor<BR/>70 paladin, formerly of Runetotem serverShwitz44https://www.blogger.com/profile/12859042711928927792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-11745382504210405342007-10-23T02:08:00.000-07:002007-10-23T02:08:00.000-07:00Surely the answer to anyone who has a prot warrior...Surely the answer to anyone who has a prot warrior or any other class that cant grind well, is to level an alt? <BR/><BR/>Even though my paladin is retri it still slow work grinding..<BR/><BR/>I use my 70 Boomkin to grind with! She kills quicker, has outdoors CC so doesnt usually need much attention healing wise.. Obviously she cant take on multiple targets the way Firelight can with aoe, but loot for single mobs Boomers FTW!Alex - aka Firelighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03521624147661620610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-63710048662857973792007-10-22T19:58:00.000-07:002007-10-22T19:58:00.000-07:00So the holy pally "buff" as well as all healing cl...So the holy pally "buff" as well as all healing classes "buff" won't make us big time damage dealers. what it will do is make grinding bearable. Now all three pally trees will be decent to grind with. (MY sympathy in this regard is with full prot warriors. . they really hurt when grinding)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13283369141122667200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-46190794213688079612007-10-22T14:56:00.000-07:002007-10-22T14:56:00.000-07:00I should rephrase - at some point they aren't even...I should rephrase - at some point they aren't even the best single target healers anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-91533017108645803372007-10-22T14:16:00.000-07:002007-10-22T14:16:00.000-07:00I think this is a really great post and sums up th...I think this is a really great post and sums up the problems paladins have with getting what they want--to the world at large we must seem extraordinarily shizophrenic. It's easy to see why it is so hard to make gains as a class when we're all looking for different things.<BR/><BR/>I think in the early days of WoW we were all hybrid faction, but given the nature of the end game we became something we weren't supposed to be, and there's been no going back as new paladins have "grown up" under the current system. It's so much easier to pick a single tree, figure out ways to improve the one role that tree facilitates, and agitate for its improvement in one voice. That's why holy originally became powerful, why protection eventually came into its own, and why retribution is making strides now. To advocate hybridness in a unified manner, you first have to have a consensus on what being a hybrid even means. That's pretty damn difficult, despite good ideas I've seen on this blog and elsewhere. So the paladin infighting we experience bothers me, especially because I'm not immune to it. <BR/><BR/>[Background] I've never been comfortable with the idea of a paladin who, all things considered, would prefer that someone else get hurt instead of them. And that's what a holy paladin is to me. Don't get me wrong, I know holy paladins take plenty of hits, especially in PvP, but I think the holy paladin is generally at his happiest when he's not getting hurt and he can devote his full attention to healing his party. That's just not a paladin to me. I put the emphasis on warrior in the phrase "holy warrior"...i.e. paladins belong in melee.<BR/><BR/>I've always wanted to be what I call the Swiss Army Renaissance Paladin (the SARP!)--having a ton of useful little tools but being a master of nothing. In vanilla WoW I was 31/20 ret/holy (later 41/20 when the pre-BC patch came out); I ran 5 mans and BGs as mostly a 2-handed melee fighter, but stopping to off-heal/off-tank when necessary--a fluid hybrid. I wore as much int and spell damage plate as I could so I'd be able to do reasonable damage, and be able to take a hit or two, but also drop things mid-battle and land some decent heals. I also kept a stamina/defense heavy tank set for OT situations, but these were rare; I mostly protected people through cunning use of stuns and blessings. I miss playing like that, but BC killed the SARP in my opinion. I picked the route that I perceived would best ensure I got to fight in melee--the protection tank. I learned how to tank properly and was exposed to the joys of AoE grinding, but I lost much of my ability to heal or lolDPS in a party. [/Background]<BR/><BR/>This upcoming patch really amuses and confuses me in a twisted way. I've always held out hope that ret would make a comeback and I could return to what I used to do. But the evolution of ret isn't what is making me amused/confused--I think they're just allowing another form of restrictive play where you can do one thing really well and 2 things terribly. No, what has me flustered is the fact that the fluid hybrid may be coming back, and it's the holy paladin!<BR/><BR/>With this +healing to +damage change that's coming down the pipe, I feel like the holy paladin is going to be in the best position to fight or heal at any given moment. They're going to be geared, in essence, like I used to be--plate with int and damage, AND they'll get the full +healing too! And I don't know...I feel like they don't deserve it. I feel like they've propped up a definition of a paladin that is false, and are being rewarded for it. I even feel like they're still going to stand back and let others do most of the fighting. Simultaneously, I'm a little afraid that they're going to be overpowered and the entire class may get nerfed as a result, somehow. Mostly, I'm probably afraid I'm going to be tempted to turn my back on everything I've always stood for as a paladin. I don't want to be an enemy of the holy paladin. And yet more and more I feel like rooting against them. I know how things got this way, but...how the hell did things get this way?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-6628192260797762372007-10-22T12:39:00.000-07:002007-10-22T12:39:00.000-07:00A nice write up as Paladins just seem odd as a com...A nice write up as Paladins just seem odd as a community sometimes. I think of it this way is a family. Its like War of the Roses (Movie). Like been at Love and War all at same time.<BR/><BR/>I always sympathize with the four specs as you call it though I mostly only see three tree day to day.<BR/><BR/>There have been times honestly as a Protection Paladin when every single paladin i see is a Holy Paladin. And on my server its what i see 9/10 times for every raiding paladin. When i seen that often i've wonder just why every single one is Holy. I'm smart enough to know why that is. Yet i quietly wonder to myself when in some guilds if Paladins don't think for them self vs been forced to re-spec by their guilds just so they could raid.<BR/><BR/>From my very first day as a Paladin i never set out to be a Tank. Who knows what the heck a tank is at level 1 let alone at level 10. I remember choosing my Paladin to be a "Defender" and not to be a Healer or DPS. But a Mighty "Defender" of my Comrads. To simple say it just like a Doctor specializes in a occupation. Thats just how i play my paladin specialized in my role i play.<BR/><BR/>I also don't do Instance healing. I'll throw a heal, i'll save your life or do what ever at any other time if i can or emergency. I've been spec and trained all my Paladin life as a Defender and its what i'm good at and its what i'll keep doing. If a guild simply cannot accept me for what i'm good at, its not a guild i want to be in irregardless how good that guild is. <BR/><BR/>But yes the Paladin community with ever class asking for something different does seem to be at Love & War among themselves more so than any other class it seems oftenly enough all the time. When one tree gets a buff for the good of the entire class, one tree cries foul, another tree rejoice and another remain what seem neutral. Its a Odd community.Ardent Defenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13162904795741307697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-75955419811924828052007-10-22T08:50:00.000-07:002007-10-22T08:50:00.000-07:00This is a pretty enlightening post for me. A lot o...This is a pretty enlightening post for me. A lot of pally discussions do seem whiney and wishy-washy, as if they really do not know what they want. The same can be true for a few other hybrid classes like shaman and especially druid. People read various posts on a topic and assume they come from a camp of people who generally agree. I guess this is not always true. Maybe folks should sign their posts with their faction attached, like tankadin, etc. <BR/><BR/>-Jason (DPS Liberation Front)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-38007650973974657802007-10-22T06:43:00.000-07:002007-10-22T06:43:00.000-07:00Coming at this from a conceptual point of view, I ...Coming at this from a conceptual point of view, I see much the same problem for most other classes: a so-called "off-spec" is generally perceived as a useless anomaly.<BR/><BR/>I typically play my 70 shadow priest. I get blind invites to heal quite frequently; I've taken to the simple reply: "I'm shadow". I now refuse to heal a 70 instance because I know I don't have the gear or play-skill to main heal. However, I've *never* received an invite looking for a shadow priest. Yet when I run with an instance group, I *always* get comments from one or more players about how nice shadow-heal and mana regen is, how powerful MC is, etc, etc, etc.<BR/><BR/>I've also run several instances with a prot pally tank, and the threat management of a prot pally on big pulls (like SH or SL or SV 4, 5, 6 elite pulls) is IMO *far* better than that of a warrior. IMO a prot warrior shines as a single boss tank - but there aren't good tools to manage a big pull where you have 3-4 elites after CC. I even read about a raiding guild that forced all pallies to go holy to heal Kara, only to find that they could no longer run heroics cleanly because the warriors simply could not hold the big pulls.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, WoW / TBC is IMO *extremely* well-designed because there is no One Best spec. But most people are stuck in a mindset that there *has* to be that One Best spec, and won't be convinced otherwise!<BR/><BR/>Therefore, IMO the pally issues are symptomatic of a larger 'problem'. People have a hard time understanding other classes and even other specs within their own class, and dismiss the viability of alternate builds. Combine that with a mixture of experiences (especially grouping with badly-played or badly-geared toons) and biases and prejudices are born and cemented into place...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-14623835139428540462007-10-22T03:10:00.000-07:002007-10-22T03:10:00.000-07:00@Larry,There is no common misconception that Palad...@Larry,<BR/><BR/>There is no common misconception that Paladins are the best overall healers unless you're talking to misinformed people spending too much reading / writing QQ posts on the O-boards.<BR/><BR/>The healadin strength is narrowly focussed to one very specific type of healing, that is MT healing. Expanding this to mean "best healer overall" is a stretch nobody in their right mind would perform.<BR/><BR/>The real issue is about prestige: MT healer is percieved as the most prestigious healer role because it's the most visible. Similarly, part of the issue with tankadins has less to do with their abilities than the prestige tied to being the raid boss MT. There is most certainly a spot on may bossfights for a prot tank to pick and hold adds during a boss fight while the warriors or the bears handle the boss. Not to mention speeding up trash clearing to get to the boss in the first place. But as long as your average raid (not talking about the bleeding edge Catarsing few) appears stuck on the notion that one single MT has to handle it all, no real progress will be made.Gwaendarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11736940983104193253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-27769227829564917492007-10-21T22:23:00.000-07:002007-10-21T22:23:00.000-07:00Holy Paladins are not as great a healer once you g...Holy Paladins are not as great a healer once you get further into the endgame. This has been stated by several leading guilds that once other healing classes (Priests, Shamans, Druids) begin to gear up to a certain point for end-end-game content (The Eye, Hyjal, BT) that Paladin deficiencies become more apparent in the healing areas - only 2 heals, one big, one small - they're usually assigned to main tank heal because they lack shields and HoTs and have trouble healing multiple targets and in this case BoP is fairly useless. They ARE mana efficient, but the other healing classes have more and better tools with which to do their jobs once having your healers go OOM is less of a problem. That being said, there is still a misconception of Paladins being these enormously overpowered healers, but they're really not. They're good healers, but they're definitely not substantially better than other healing classes - but because for some reason, people seem to think they are, raiding Paladins are often forced to spec Holy. One of the biggest things any Paladin regardless of spec, brings to the raid is his/her Blessings. Having Paladins putting up Kings, Might, Wisdom and Salvation is a huge boon to the raid and it's worth bringing along at least 3 in a 25 man setting just for Blessings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-80584457812316386932007-10-21T17:42:00.000-07:002007-10-21T17:42:00.000-07:00Like Michal said... the proof is in the pudding. T...Like Michal said... the proof is in the pudding. The more Paladins that throw up videos of themselves main tanking BT and etc... the more accepted other roles outside of Holy will be.<BR/><BR/>However, I think a side problem is that people might be afraid. The majority of WoW players look at each class and see one of the three talent trees as "crap" or just offspec. A discipline priest or survival hunter would get laughed out of the raid. Since Paladins are hybrids we want all three trees to be viable and we think it just isn't possible. (Oomkin druids are not a counterpoint.)<BR/><BR/>Since Ret was our "bad tree" it kept everyone not specced to Ret rather happy. All of a sudden Ret gets some rather significant buffs and people are worried that nerfs are going to come down somewhere else and ruin their build. Akin to how Holy Priest buffs came at the same time as some Shadow nerfs.<BR/><BR/>Just a theory.grumpushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17911788539737267187noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-34644602481572481342007-10-21T10:13:00.000-07:002007-10-21T10:13:00.000-07:00I would just like to add to my comment that ever s...I would just like to add to my comment that ever since Blood Elves hit the scene you notice that Horde is more acceptant of retribution paladins BECAUSE more paladins are willing to heal and the occasional tank. You have paladins like Highborne (US) (BE Ret BT paladin) who deliver in the raid environment and Horde is willing to accept that but when you turn over to the Alliance side of things, the general WoW community has always had the mindset of paladins being healers and anything outside of a warrior tank priest/sham/pally/druid heal rest DPS makeup would be obsurde and just wouldn't work because they do no want to try it at all when builds like enhancement, retribution, elemental, shadow, feral, and boomkin all work really well (Ret more so soon than it does now) but many guilds don't want to try it even though it would be in the best itnerest of the guild to do so. I've also heard of a paladin Main Tanking BT (I think he was alliance) but for newer guilds or veteran guilds that would be out of the picture as paladins are not and never will be tanks in their minds.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371518646578206898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-77206001519961734442007-10-21T10:05:00.000-07:002007-10-21T10:05:00.000-07:00OMG its so true!I'm a retriscrub but I am holy for...OMG its so true!<BR/><BR/>I'm a retriscrub but I am holy for the sole reason of getting holy gear to heal in 5v5 and collecting points for ret gear ( <3 merc glad greatsword)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12371518646578206898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-87265949264336626642007-10-21T09:15:00.000-07:002007-10-21T09:15:00.000-07:00Hybrid play requires more or less balancing your t...Hybrid play requires more or less balancing your talent point distribution between 2 or more trees designed to do 2 different things. To the best of my knowledge, the Shockadin build is the only standard hybrid build. The farther you go into each tree, the more "pure" (insert tree purpose here) you are. <BR/><BR/>Right now, I'm 40/21/0, so I'm pretty much a "pure" healer who can take a hit or two if a trash mob wants to take a swing at me. I could respec to a more hybrid build and work on a build/gear that gimps my healing some but lets me off-tank and off-heal melee classes, but I honestly prefer healing. I rolled a paladin back when that was all they did in raids and leveled it holy. Yeah it takes forever to kill something, and I can't really tank anything worth a crap, but that's what I chose when I went deep holy. Inability to heal or DPS is what paladins give up going deep prot, and inability to heal or tank is what paladins should expect to give up by going deep ret.<BR/><BR/>If you want to be a hybrid, you're probably only going about 30 points or so into any given tree. Fanaticism is a 40-point talent will filled all the way. That essentially is committing you to deep ret and pigeonholing you as DPS. True hybrids probably wouldn't be deep enough in the ret tree to get that kind of threat reduction. <BR/><BR/>If you really want to encourage hybrid builds, petition Blizzard to thin up the protection tree. Standard tanking specs require putting 49 points into protection, that's way too many points for 1 role. Likewise, it wouldn't hurt to make sure retribution doesn't get so talent-heavy either with the new changes to the tree. Trees that allow you to accomplish what they were designed to do early in the tree allow for hybrid builds, even though it's at the cost of being more effective as that tree's role.<BR/><BR/>It may well be possible to have a hybrid build and play a viable role in raids. The problem is that no one has really defined that role, and until it's figured out, hybrid builds will never become accepted as raid specs and paladins will be forced into "pure" roles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-28386438916194742972007-10-21T06:23:00.000-07:002007-10-21T06:23:00.000-07:00I'm pretty sure this type of thing developed when ...I'm pretty sure this type of thing developed when Blizzard first revamped the Holy tree---you used to be able to put hmm, 11 points in and nab all the nifty stuff, and then dump the rest into Ret in Vanilla WoW.meganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16109845916843631518noreply@blogger.com