tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post3798125143881307189..comments2024-01-04T02:49:23.470-08:00Comments on Blessing of Kings: Crowd ControlRohanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-40940955227577540022010-01-23T19:00:45.700-08:002010-01-23T19:00:45.700-08:00Your comments on CC omitted the actual reason that...Your comments on CC omitted the actual reason that CC was formerly useful: the lack of tank durability. Originally, if you had a 4-mob spawn each of those mobs would have 25% of the hit points but all of the offense of a similar 1-mob spawn. So your tank would simply die if he tried to tank all of them at once.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-34062568636634460052010-01-19T05:14:13.265-08:002010-01-19T05:14:13.265-08:00This is a topic thats a bit under my skin. I don&#...This is a topic thats a bit under my skin. I don't have a problem with the ability or occasion if needed to CC a mob in a group and do a surgical and controlled pull if needed. Hell I like to do that every now and then and do enjoy it. <br /><br />What the lack of CC has done between the era of tBC and WotLK is encourage very poor performance on a lot of players with complete disregard to how they use their spells to no adverse effect on any mob group you pull. Everyone now a days has AoE spells, everyone just throw AoE spells all around on group pull. <br /><br />From what i've mostly seem, few players today have any real skill in ability to on demand CC a target. Few players even remember what the hell CC even is. Then you got others who have no idea how the hell to use CC. <br /><br />When you use CC chances are if the target got CC that target because many players never seen it or even know what the hell CC is end up breaking CC. Almost instantly that happens with others complete disregard to careless AoE all over the place. <br /><br />And that is pretty much the problem I have with Crow Control....... people who have the skill have no damn idea how to use it. And when group pulls go to crap its always easier to blame the tank for a mob that the tank missed or was loose out of range. <br /><br />I can remember my all time favorite CC tactical pull. It was that pull in Slave Pens with the double Champions immediately after the the Crab looking boss before you headed to the last boss. I used to find it fun being able to mark CC, execute the pull on that group knowing people will be feared all over the place and more than once. Kill the group and have no one in group get killed. Little moments like that was fun with group teamwork on other people to use their own skills. Sadly you don't have that in WotLK, what you've had is allot of poor performance players who believe the way the play is the norm.Ardent Defenderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13162904795741307697noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-50044511391138812972010-01-19T00:40:30.737-08:002010-01-19T00:40:30.737-08:00Another problem with crowd control is that it simp...Another problem with crowd control is that it simply delays the inevitable. Sooner or later, you'll have to break that sheep and kill the mob, so you might as well cut out the middleman and proceed directly to the killing part.<br /><br />If CC worked like Mind Soothe, allowing people to skip killing mobs altogether, more people would use it.Ephemeronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16403198085556121203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-41936154781333649512010-01-18T16:44:31.414-08:002010-01-18T16:44:31.414-08:00Another alternative is to make it difficult or imp...Another alternative is to make it difficult or impossible for a single tank to hold threat on all mobs simultaneously.<br /><br />Back in the good (bad?) old days of vanilla WoW, when warriors were basically the only tanks and had very few AoE threat-generating abilities, you *had* to CC because the tank simply couldn't hold all of those mobs at once.<br /><br />In BC, when tankadins became viable, their AoE tanking abilities became the gold standard: groups forgot about CC, and other tanks suffered because groups expected them to just tank everything. (As a warrior tank at the end of BC, I routinely felt like I just didn't have the tools to tank effectively.) In WotLK, this imbalance was fixed by giving *every* tank reasonable AoE capabilities, which made CC irrelevant.<br /><br />Thus the "quick" fix for the lack of CC is to nerf every tank's AoE threat generation abilities to the point where they can't reasonably expect to hold more than three active mobs at once.Jeremynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-52867182013833021072010-01-18T10:41:53.626-08:002010-01-18T10:41:53.626-08:00Do you remember the mobs packs on the to Kael'...Do you remember the mobs packs on the to Kael'thas? I broke a sheep once as a -healer- and wiped us. Ah, those were the days. Overzealous healers wiping raids...<br /><br />Another way to enforce CC would be to put multiple strong healers in a group, ones that you can't just burn through the heals. (Like in SSC, I think.) Or multiple mobs that Mind Control. Mind Control is a pain, no matter the gear level. Having packs of mobs with multiple MCers would be one way to really enforce that CCing again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-44644919034646079162010-01-18T05:35:56.647-08:002010-01-18T05:35:56.647-08:00Shadow Labyrinth was never fun.Shadow Labyrinth was never fun.Ferarrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14268938786958814482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-54304518750679471242010-01-18T05:33:02.856-08:002010-01-18T05:33:02.856-08:00The idea your suggesting is exactly what the first...The idea your suggesting is exactly what the first boss encounter is like in Gruul's Lair. Remember that one? And you can make untankable mobs if by untankable you mean mobs that aren't tanked by the traditional class tanks. It might be nice to see more content with dps classes required to do tanking of some sort rather than the traditional tank/healer/dps tactics you find in most 5-man content. The problem the developers face is of course the unknown makeup of a group. You can't do an encounter that requires specifically a warlock if the group doesn't have one .... this is why 5-man content has become more generic ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-34559762301317795892010-01-18T03:03:35.338-08:002010-01-18T03:03:35.338-08:00I am generally tasked with playing Ret CC by pugs ...I am generally tasked with playing Ret CC by pugs when I play Heroic Halls of Reflection. Keep a Hunter repented and Turn Evil on a Mage whenever I can sort of thing. Other than that, it hasn't really even come up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-44445990239964468412010-01-18T02:59:05.491-08:002010-01-18T02:59:05.491-08:00The no need for CC thing in Wotlk is bullshit.
T...The no need for CC thing in Wotlk is bullshit. <br /><br />The heroics were tuned for ilvl 187 blues. And if your tank has less then 20k hp trust me - cc is usable. I remember doing lots and lots of hcs in the november/december 2008 - we used quite a lot cc back there even in nexus and UC hc. We used CC on Ulduar trash. The no cc problem is the fast overgearing of content - patchwerk was supposed to hit 18k hp tank hard with 25% avoidance. 50k ones with 65% avoidance are barely scratched by it. And even 25k hp were laughing at him.Kreeegorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676160002427456206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-11576982704524948042010-01-18T01:11:40.122-08:002010-01-18T01:11:40.122-08:00What's wrong with the current Heroics (heck, e...What's wrong with the current Heroics (heck, even some raids) is you don't HAVE to do it right to succeed, even when you're not overgearing the place. Yes, surviving Scourgelord Tyrannus' Unholy Power might be difficult for a tank appropiately geared for the place, but it's doable (you're supposed to kite him across the ice patches during it, or have him knock you over them).<br /><br />I really hate it how most of the current content supports (or doesn't punish) poor playing. Players don't need to learn the tactics, or even how to get the most out of their character, to succeed in the majority of the current content.Rammurgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-58510898807001365842010-01-18T00:23:29.900-08:002010-01-18T00:23:29.900-08:00For me one of the best instances is Mana-Tombs her...For me one of the best instances is Mana-Tombs heroic. The trash in Mana-Tombs is wonderful, or was pre 2.4.<br /><br />You had these 4 pulls.<br /><br />- A priest who would heal.<br />- A shadow caster who would cast mana burn which would burn the whole mana of your healer.<br />- 2 other, less dangerous ones.<br /><br />Normally, you cannot do focus damage and prevent 2 mobs from casting in a 5 man group. That's why you CC-ed one or the other.<br /><br />There are mobs who charge-stun the tank. There are mobs who put a massive debuff on random players (the immolate).<br /><br />Another one is Magisters' Terrace.<br /><br />- The mage who stacks a buff with every successful cast, increasing its haste.<br />- The warlock putting a massive Immolate on random players.<br />- The succubus seducing party members.<br />- The ethereal doing his strong instant arcane explosion which you can only interrupt with a stun.<br />- A healer.<br />- A ranged Naga which couldn't be AE-tanked easily.<br /><br />These are perfect examples of mobs who can be handled easily when focused, because you will have interrupts/stuns but who are hard to handle in groups because a 5 an group cannot prevent 4 or 5 mobs from casting at the same time without CC.<br /><br />I love(d) these two instances because every single mob would deserve a sheep. Everyone had a nasty ability. (In Mana-Tombs most of them would annoy the tank and in Magisters' Terrace most would annoy the healer.) It's not the classic "sheep the one with mana, kill the rest".<br /><br />Of course, that would not work for 25 man raids as you can easily bring 5 rogues to kick 5 mobs or something like that.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.com