tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post7179379743442454010..comments2024-01-04T02:49:23.470-08:00Comments on Blessing of Kings: Heroic DifficultyRohanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-69502236606791449322011-01-22T12:14:46.076-08:002011-01-22T12:14:46.076-08:00*smacks self* Way to say what a bunch of others o...*smacks self* Way to say what a bunch of others on the page have already said. That'll teach me to post before reading everything carefully.<br /><br />Nothing to see here ... just move along ... *whistles casually*Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06424161468765167834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-2013869216544955682011-01-20T20:00:34.324-08:002011-01-20T20:00:34.324-08:00But for some people, heroics *are* the endgame. N...But for some people, heroics *are* the endgame. Not everyone is able to raid or wants to raid; shouldn't those people be able to enjoy some content that's fun and challenging too?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06424161468765167834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-358746993659461622011-01-19T05:08:34.218-08:002011-01-19T05:08:34.218-08:00I have done Heroics too much now so I only run the...I have done Heroics too much now so I only run them for my Valor points and I ont have to do that for long on my main either.<br /><br />So I say nerf the shit out of them so that I dont have to spend an hour doing my daily hc and can do it in 15 mins.<br /><br />I couldnt care less if the casuals have or have not got gear like mine as I do not interract with them.<br /><br />We need to stop worrying about what they are wearing and doing and look to mimnimise the time we spend with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-91276495495704247342011-01-16T14:41:32.456-08:002011-01-16T14:41:32.456-08:00Heroics are fine, admittedly I dont pug randoms. I...Heroics are fine, admittedly I dont pug randoms. If I cant find guildies to run with I dont bother going, Its not worth my time and effort especially as you miss out on Guild rep.<br /><br />They are allready boring as a healer because all I do is press efficient heal x500. Swap to a very borderline healer, technically below the 329 ilevel and all the difference is I press efficient heal x500 and also drink a lot. You can still do runs with 0-1 cc and 2-3 melee.Ngitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13526961657299848611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-80573111425728854272011-01-15T19:16:08.119-08:002011-01-15T19:16:08.119-08:00i personally don't think hero's should be ...i personally don't think hero's should be nerfed. what i do think needs to happen (like blue have previously talked about) is have some sort of way to force someone to be ready for heroics.<br /><br />me, the tank, got awfully tired of explaining just the fundamentals to EVERYONE (and if u didn't need an explaination, but someone else did i'd get sum smart ass remark about trying to learn someone) all the time. ie: wtf CC is and gtfo of the crap on the ground.<br /><br />it was such a chore and i've since took a break. tired of 2 hour 101 classes every dungeon.<br /><br />i SO hope there will be some sort of implementation to ALL players to ready them for heroics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-6372612099445521782011-01-15T09:15:40.803-08:002011-01-15T09:15:40.803-08:00I have been leveling an alt recently and its dissa...I have been leveling an alt recently and its dissapointing runnning so many dungeons with tank and spank bosses. Wrath had a lot of fun boss mechanics in heroics. Back when Wrath heroics first released there were not as many options for grinding gear. I like that there are many options for gearing now. It helps fill in the gaps. I like the current difficulty settings of Heroics,the mechanics are fun. That being said there are some that I will not do with a pug at this time. I think there are a good mix of puggable and not puggable and they will get easier as gear scales.Pkcphttp://porkchopsnholysauce.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-30430194578751182432011-01-15T02:31:45.441-08:002011-01-15T02:31:45.441-08:00I don't know if I necessarily agree man. I und...I don't know if I necessarily agree man. I understand your rationale, but I don't agree with it. I think eventually this will be a good thing for the community because if you haven't put in the time to gear up from the so-called stepping stone, few will let you in the eventually inevitable pugged raids. the better geared you are from heroics, the better the overall pugging experience will be.Brontehttp://arewenewatthis.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-36857193407926132262011-01-15T01:57:14.297-08:002011-01-15T01:57:14.297-08:00They're already nerfing heroics in the next pa...They're already nerfing heroics in the next patch, especially the bosses that "wiped pugs too much" as they said or bosses that required too much cc, most prominent nerfs announcements is reducing Beauty adds by 1 (so you don't need 2 ccers) or removing heal from 1st SFK boss, since he needed 2 interrupters as he has other spells in the arsenal too. <br /><br />They're also nerfing Deadmines and Stonecore, some nerfs to Deadmines are already live. <br /><br />They nerfed 3rd boss in brc (Karsh aka kite through fire pillar boss) and I must say I notice the difference from a tank (kiting) point of view. <br /><br />No need to worry, the nerfs are coming all the time. <br /><br />When we get t14 - t15 gear in 1-2 year time we'll probably zerg these heroics in 15-20 mins again but now we can't compare them to wotlk heroics in 277 level gear, you should compare them to wotlk heroics in 187-200 level blues and they didn't take 20 mins. Timed Culling of Stratholme was hard to do and it was 25 mins timer + 7-9 mins intro (nerfed VERY late into expansion) + last boss not counted in the timer. And some heroics were longer than CoS, say Old Kingdom (*shivers*). <br /><br />Also I don't see a point making heroics "real end game" and delivering raids much later, I'd be bored, I'm kinda done with heroics, running sometimes for valor points but since I'm not in hardcore guild that would whip me for skipping some valor, there are days where I don't even run the heroic. I'm 8 achievements away from the drake from heroics, but not rushing for it, if guild asks me to help in some achievement then yeah, I'll come. <br /><br />So if there was no raids I would lost incentive to play, because I already lost it for heroics, I've done them enough times.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-22470169008570598302011-01-14T11:32:51.804-08:002011-01-14T11:32:51.804-08:00The problem with your argument is, that the step u...The problem with your argument is, that the step up from the current heroics to the raids themselves is quite a big step. <br />If the more casual players cannot cope with the current heroics because they are 'too hard', then as soon as they get to the raids, they are going to get absolutely creamed. What then? Nerf the raids, too? <br /> <br />If people want quicker/easier runs, then they should do Normals, and get their gear up to 346-359 from rep and crafted items.<br /><br />I'm all for reducing the length of some of these encounters, as they can drag on a bit, but nerfing the difficulty level is so typical of Blizzard, and I'm getting a bit pissed off with it.*vlad*noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-72472469181915477992011-01-14T09:54:09.664-08:002011-01-14T09:54:09.664-08:00This is whats going to drive this game back to BOR...This is whats going to drive this game back to BORING Wotlk heroics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-48932890831337002082011-01-14T09:04:10.408-08:002011-01-14T09:04:10.408-08:00"What's the point of 4.1 with new raid ti..."What's the point of 4.1 with new raid tiers if the majority of the playerbase is struggling with heroics?"<br /><br />Heroics get auto-nerfed in 4.1. Once the current valor point items drop down to justice points, it buffs everyone except the raiders who already have it all.<br /><br />I disagree that heroics need to be nerfed pre-4.1. The current model is perfect, imo; top tier raiding be extremely difficult and unaccessable to the majority, tier below that (heroics, atm) should be a challenge to everyone else.<br /><br />Once 4.1 comes out, the new raids will be hard and inaccessable to most. The current raids will be a challenge to the majority (with their 359 JP gear and a piece or two of new valor.) Heroics will be a joke with nearly everyone in 346/359 gear.Kadaanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11826029508824702882noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-35827408505182842622011-01-14T08:48:40.023-08:002011-01-14T08:48:40.023-08:00I'm going to have to disagree. I have also ru...I'm going to have to disagree. I have also run and often pugged every heroic and am about three achievements away from Glory of the Cata Hero to boot.<br /><br />New heroics reward smart play, communication, and team work. In Wrath I had a healer being a less than team player and so when he died, we didn't rez him, and I ran the rest of H UK without a healer with him lying dead on the floor. Near the end of Wrath I could solo most Wrath heroics, it was ridiculous.<br /><br />Heroics are only impossible if you make them impossible by not utilizing all tools available to your party in an appropriate manner. When doing this, heroics can still be hard. As I think I've stated before, I was in the first wave of 85s to hit heroics and I remember one night spending three hours just working out different strats for Admiral Ripsnarl. No one gave up, no one said it was too hard or that we weren't geared enough, and with enough effort and learning we eventually finished the dungeon.<br /><br />Nerfing heroics at this point, now that they've actually become easy compared to what they were in early December, is just a tip of the hat to the "I want everything handed to me" crowd. <br /><br />What people don't realize is that not every player is supposed to see every aspect of the game, particularly right off the bat. How many servers downed KT in Naxx 40 during Vanilla? How many downed LK or HM LK before the Strength of Wrynn/Horde counterpart started? It's meant to be hard, it's what allows the "hardcores" to feel superior (for better or for worse) and keeps this from being a PC game where everyone has equal gear/loot.<br /><br />It's equal opportunity, not equal results. You have the opportunity to gear up through heroics and raids, just like everyone else. If that's not something you're interested in doing due to time investment, difficulty, etc. then that's your business, but don't demand the same rewards of those who spent the time in the way of nerfs to make it easier for those who weren't willing to put in the same effort.Faidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06391974662068287154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-48669657200251263812011-01-14T07:30:20.587-08:002011-01-14T07:30:20.587-08:00Give us easier access to reputation gear, and leav...Give us easier access to reputation gear, and leave heroics at the current difficulty. Buff gear, don't nerf content.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-6965103650014608752011-01-14T07:27:50.012-08:002011-01-14T07:27:50.012-08:00I don't think it could've been better said...I don't think it could've been better said than the original post. Well done, indeed.Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08962869066012176921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-68174865795579085592011-01-14T06:24:50.088-08:002011-01-14T06:24:50.088-08:00Love the blog, Rohan. I think heroics are pretty ...Love the blog, Rohan. I think heroics are pretty great right now, aside from the time commitment involved. My guild is one of those casual, plebeian guilds that people are talking about in this thread. We just barely downed LK 10 before Cataclysm went live. <br /><br />For my guild, heroics right now are hard. Like, we don't finish probably 1/3 to 1/2 of them. A lot of our guildies are just barely at the minimum ilvl. When we first got 4 people at gear level to go in, we probably entered 4 heroics before we finished one. <br /><br />For my guild, heroics are doing what Wrath heroics didn't do effectively: they're training our guys to raid. In Wrath, faceroll heroics encouraged bad habits among my raiders, so the beginning of our weekly raids were always clunky while people relearned how to watch the ground while dpsing, use CDs effectively, etc. Now in Cata, my usual tank is notably better today than he was 2 weeks ago, and I'm definitely a better healer. We're getting better at controlling the battlefield, thinking on our feet, using our abilities effectively, all that stuff, even against bosses we've never seen. DPS are a little better each heroic than they were before.<br /><br />To put how heroics are going for casual guilds into perspective, I, being a new healer in a guild of that caliber, have probably finished 1/3 of the total number of heroics I've been in, but I finished 3 out of the 4 I've been in over the last week and a half. I also successfully healed a Baradin Hold pug last week, and did only about 2% less healing than the other healer.<br /><br />On the other hand, the length of heroics is significant for us, since it usually take 2+ hours for us to finish one. Of course, that's because we wipe several times along the way; it took about an hour to do the ToT run last week when we didn't wipe.Solunnenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-61769738884259548072011-01-14T06:18:04.890-08:002011-01-14T06:18:04.890-08:00I should learn to count... and TBC had 15 (+1 but ...I should learn to count... and TBC had 15 (+1 but we expect some more in Cata).<br /><br />Looks a bit better now but my point stays the same.<br /><br />Vanilla had 26 instances (depending on how you count and no heroic mode therefore many not at the level cap).<br />TBC had 15 (+1).<br />WotLK had 12 (+3).<br />Cata has 9.<br /><br />This content, of course, gets boring much faster because there is less variation.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-82322207002615303102011-01-14T06:03:59.274-08:002011-01-14T06:03:59.274-08:00"With 6 different heroics that's completi..."With 6 different heroics that's completing each heroic at least 5 times...Plus TBC had 15 heroics. Cata has 6."<br /><br />Cataclysm has nine heroic instances, not six.Yeechang Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01745943718978763859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-3855084267663437042011-01-14T05:40:38.125-08:002011-01-14T05:40:38.125-08:00My problem with Heroics isn't that much of the...My problem with Heroics isn't that much of the difficulty. Its the time needed to complete them.<br /><br />By the time I'd run 1 with PuG, I can do 3 normal lvl 85 dungeon (1 being random) get rep and eventually gear out from rep rewards faster than I could hope for in an heroic.<br /><br />Sure wrath's 20 minutes heroics were a laugh, but they should have shot for 50 minutes runs, not 2-3 hours.<br /><br />I really enjoyed running a random-h during my lunch time at work in the wrath era. Today, I know I won't be able to do that again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-1562118050250545842011-01-14T05:36:51.889-08:002011-01-14T05:36:51.889-08:00I think you can at least make a case that heroics ...I think you can at least make a case that heroics should be nerfed, but I don't think Coriel's is a good argument. Taking his logic to the extreme, you would argue that all raid fights but Heroic Sinestra should be nerfed since that's the only true end game.<br /><br />Presently the game is constructed around having a good guild. Sure, you could try to PUG raids or Rated BGs, but everyone knows your greatest chance for success is playing that content with a guild. If I were more serious about PVP, I wouldn't complain about how hard it is to win rated BGs or arena matches with randoms. Instead, I'd put in the due diligence to find reasonable teammates and partners and grind it out with them. Likewise for heroics: if you're consistently struggling in the LFD, then find some people you know you can work with (and not be too pissed off at when the group fails) and go from there. Build some relationships. It's the whole point of a social game.<br /><br />I hope Blizz doesn't nerf things beyond 4.0.6 for a while. I do agree that we could afford to shorten the length of a heroic by reducing the number of repetitive trash mobs. Only the really top end groups could do SFK, Grim Batol, or Deadmines in 45 minutes.<br /><br />Honestly, I think Cataclysm was everything the WoW community was asking for at the end of WotLK and it's funny to see to see the backtracking on some of that now.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088238208613243886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-28924729483304498132011-01-14T05:15:11.239-08:002011-01-14T05:15:11.239-08:00These heroics are great. Finally there is content...These heroics are great. Finally there is content which is going to force players to learn how to play better or deter them from jumping into raids they can not handle. <br /><br />I'm not sure cata makes great business sense for Bliz if they lose a lot of customers. But this content should improve the player base. <br /><br />Like others said, there is a ton of other things you can do in this game to have fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-77081727981390815692011-01-14T05:14:02.834-08:002011-01-14T05:14:02.834-08:00Heroics *will* be nerfed - by the natural progress...Heroics *will* be nerfed - by the natural progression of gear.<br /><br />As time goes on, players will get better gear from instances, from crafting, from quest rewards, and from the auction house. <br /><br />When you did your first heroic PuG a few weeks ago, your healer was probably at iLvL 329 or 330. Now he'll more likely be at 335-340. In a month he'll probably be at 340-345.<br /><br />As this process happens the heroics will get easier on their own without any interference from Blizzard. I think that is the way to go.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-137169310227749892011-01-14T03:25:14.259-08:002011-01-14T03:25:14.259-08:00> The cost was my repair bills. It didn't c...> The cost was my repair bills. It didn't cost me time,<br />> because I was doing something I enjoyed.<br /><br />Sure. That's true for some runs. With how boring Cata heroics are done it was true for about one run for me. (The trash is boring not the bosses. I don't care about the bosses, the trash is what takes time and should therefore reward us with a challenging fight.)<br /><br />But look at the "other" reward. The T11 pants cost you 2200 points. The first random heroic each day rewards you with 70 points. (If T11 shouldn't be your goal, the instance shouldn't reward any valour points at all.)<br /><br />That's 32 heroics for the pants.<br />With 6 different heroics that's completing each heroic at least 5 times.<br />And it takes you 32 days.<br /><br />Hard heroics are fun. Yes they are.<br />But is doing each hard heroic 5 times still fun? Maybe.<br /><br />Then there's the Chest, the gloves, a ring, a trinket, the cloak...<br /><br />That's doing each and every heroic something like 20 times? There I won't get any reward from the sence of achievement anymore.<br /><br />Plus TBC had 15 heroics. Cata has 6. With TBC you would have to do every heroic twice for the 32 runs required for the pants, not 5 times.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-51515859570812386212011-01-14T03:11:00.833-08:002011-01-14T03:11:00.833-08:00As for what Kring said, echoing Spinks' views:...As for what Kring said, echoing Spinks' views: "The cost and reward is way out of sync for heroics at the moment".<br /><br />The cost was my repair bills. It didn't cost me time, because I was doing something I enjoyed. What else would I have been doing? Disenchanting greens? Crafting spellthreads? In fact the time spent doing something enjoyable is on the reward side of the equation.<br /><br />And the reward for completing these instances was far greater than any gear: a sense of achievement if we managed to kill the bosses. That sense of achievement is now lost. What achievement is there in killing bosses that are now designed to be facerolled? Now there is only failure and grind.Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-2658178467686685472011-01-14T03:06:08.797-08:002011-01-14T03:06:08.797-08:00Coriel, I'm sorry to have to disagree with you...Coriel, I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, and with Spinks. I am very sorry to see heroics being nerfed. They truly were heroic for a short time. Now they aren't. It was a challenge to do them, and I <i>loved</i> the fact that it wasn't a given that you could complete them. <br /><br />Couldn't you have waited another month to do raids, if you felt you weren't geared enough for them? Couldn't you have enjoyed beating the bosses in the heroic instances? Now that they have been nerfed so that we can faceroll then, what enjoyment is there in completing a "heroic"? It becomes a grind. <br /><br />And to what end would you undertake this grind? To get gear for raiding? If we couldn't beat the bosses in the heroic (pre-nerf) instances, what hope have we of beating raid bosses? So the next thing is people will start to complain that they're too hard as well. Nerf city, here we come. Do we really want to nerf the challenge out of this game?Dàchénghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02994982502333811797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-45026061112254043332011-01-14T02:29:46.563-08:002011-01-14T02:29:46.563-08:00Yeechang Lee is right, heroics should NOT be nerfe...Yeechang Lee is right, heroics should NOT be nerfed exactly because they are the endgame for the majority.<br /><br />If you nerf them, and everyone can do them easily, what will happen to the majority of players? They have all the gear that justice points + 490 Valor points/week can buy and has NOTHING TO DO.<br /><br />They can't go to heroic as they have everything there. They can go to 1/day for 70 more valor point, but that's 40 mins AoE after the nerf.<br /><br />They can't go to raiding as there is no way they can pass trough the double-pull trash before Halfus and while they MAY be able to kill Magmaw or Omnitron trash, there is no point. Killing the bosses is impossible for anyone who can't complete ANY heroic WITHOUT A SINGLE WIPE.Gevlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072766785893313616noreply@blogger.com