tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post8486781336556965371..comments2024-01-04T02:49:23.470-08:00Comments on Blessing of Kings: Talent TreesRohanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-74935609770265517962011-11-12T11:03:37.364-08:002011-11-12T11:03:37.364-08:00@Azuriel-- I don't see how the blue poster ca...@Azuriel-- I don't see how the blue poster can say that constantly changing your talent tree on a per-fight basis is an improvement, since there will still be an optimal talent tree agreed upon.<br /><br />I just think that the law of unintended consequences will be at play here.Redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306063084983025771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-60946405386500330732011-11-10T07:26:21.949-08:002011-11-10T07:26:21.949-08:00@Kring, the zone of choice is small compared to th...@Kring, the zone of choice is small compared to the entire talent trees in all talent trees. The small zone is good thing, it means that at any given time your menu of choices is smaller than the total choices available. It sort of "rations" out the choices as time passes.<br /><br />It's a certainly larger zone in the older trees. but given that most of the talents in the other trees are for other specs, it's not really that big of an advantage. <br /><br />Maybe for the pure dps classes, but given that pure builds tend to be driven by the last points, to reach a certain level in each tree.Rohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-52739969843123574552011-11-10T06:31:51.708-08:002011-11-10T06:31:51.708-08:00Great post. I'm surprised Talent Trees won'...Great post. I'm surprised Talent Trees won't make it into Diablo III. In a game where you're not as focused on optimizing your role in a group (like Diablo), Talent Trees offered tons of opportunity to customize a character. There are still pages and pages dedicated to dozens of builds for each Diablo II class.<br /><br />Anyway, the real killer is the cap on the number of talent points which prevents any real customization since everybody needs to optimize role fulfillment. Occasionally you can flip a talent or a glyph for a specific fight mechanic (see Rohan's Holy Wrath Glyph post). Seems like a good move for WoW.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05088238208613243886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-18925588788872507552011-11-10T06:30:20.796-08:002011-11-10T06:30:20.796-08:00I can see Sacred Shield being a superior choice in...I can see Sacred Shield being a superior choice in a fight using the Chimaeron mechanic, I suspect we haven't seen the last of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-51190525553293160642011-11-10T01:25:49.899-08:002011-11-10T01:25:49.899-08:00> If both talents are in the Protection tree, t...> If both talents are in the Protection tree, then<br />> every tank will take both talents and drop some<br />> threat or utility talent instead.<br /><br />This could probably be solved by something like what The Witchers used with its bronze, silver and gold points. Certain talents require gold points which you only have very few.<br /><br />> The small zone of choice explains why<br /><br />The small zone of choice was introduced by the Cata system which locks you into one tree until you have every useful talent.<br /><br />The vanilla system didn't have this problem. You had a much bigger zone of choice and the result were many "hybrid builds" which didn't put 31 points in one tree.<br /><br />I think the Cata system had to die because it was never a talent *tree*, it were only *gated* talents. They could have put all the effects of the talent system as passive talents on the class trainer.Kringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03128630042421602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-51509143897371476992011-11-09T19:06:43.811-08:002011-11-09T19:06:43.811-08:00Completely agree with Rohan here. The only thing y...Completely agree with Rohan here. The only thing you lose while leveling the is the ability to push a button at level up. The literal choice was 100% meaningless in TBC as you can see from talent trees I edited <a href="http://inanage.com/2011/11/01/character-customization-through-talents/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Whether Blizzard let the leveling game go to weeds is an entirely separate issue from the talent system. <br /><br />@Redbeard<br /><br />Blizzard answered the "but there will always be cookie-cutters!" charge in the latest Q&A:<br /><br />A: Since so many of the talents focus on survivability, movement, and utility we are skeptical that there will ever be a talent build that is the perfect build for every PvE fight in the game. It is likely that as players learn specific encounters, each spec finds an ideal set of talents for that encounter. Those will be the "cookie cutter" builds. However, that will mean that players are interacting with the system and picking a unique set of customizations on a frequent basis. This is a vast improvement over a system that is solved once by a dps spreadhseet and then everyone copies that build once and ignores their talents for the rest of the expansion. In addition, there will be likely disagreement over which talents are best for which encounters.Azurielhttp://inanage.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-16335489942828038872011-11-09T14:45:55.514-08:002011-11-09T14:45:55.514-08:00I'm not saying that talent trees are the best ...I'm not saying that talent trees are the best system for leveling. Just that trees are better during leveling than at endgame.<br /><br />Most of the time, trees are just a whole bunch of tiny choices that don't really affect gameplay. You make very few important choices.<br /><br />Like the Rift example. 66 talent points, and really only about 10 of them truly matter. Everything else is essentially "increases damage by 0.5%".<br /><br />It's quite possible that the new system will turn out to be better for leveling *and* endgame.Rohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09090769681887119989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-87604744980664958392011-11-09T14:37:37.521-08:002011-11-09T14:37:37.521-08:00I agree that this new system feels better and more...I agree that this new system feels better and more meaningful than the current talent trees.<br /><br />@Jeremy, I think the design intent is, for the most part, as you describe. Glyphs enhance class and spec abilities, and talents add new abilities. There's a few exceptions, like Fist of Justice, but not too many.<br /><br />Like Nils, I'm am a little disappointed that Blizzard seem to have just given up on the leveling game. I guess they had to make a choice about it. Gevlon made a few posts last month about how the end game of WoW is a totally different game to the leveling game, and how this can easily spoil the fun of players. It seems that rather than try to bring the two games closer together, leveling is just being marginalised further. Expect plenty more heirlooms in MoP.Rodoshttp://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/saurfang/rodos/simplenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-10154147307921141642011-11-09T12:56:55.433-08:002011-11-09T12:56:55.433-08:00I believe that in the end it won't matter. Th...I believe that in the end it won't matter. The field of theorycrafting is such that people <i>will</i> crunch the numbers and <i>will</i> say which talent to take, and people <i>will</i> follow their lead.<br /><br />It's too late for Blizz to put the genie back in the bottle, and theorycrafting along with its side effects are here to stay. What might end up happening will be a scenario where guilds will take two Mages into a BG, one with Ring of Frost and one with Cone of Cold. Want to join a rated BG? Well, we've got two Mages covered, so take a Pally but make sure you have Sacred Shield.Redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05306063084983025771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-73527039857730005062011-11-09T10:59:45.888-08:002011-11-09T10:59:45.888-08:00Great Post. I love the new concept. Your example...Great Post. I love the new concept. Your example with Paladin T3 illustrates your point very well.<br /><br />My slight concerns around the new system revolves around two issues. Granted, I haven't read much about this so I may be in the dark to info others already know about. <br /><br />First, how will glyphs work now? It would almost be best if they only effected abilities that come from your class and spec and not talented ones. I say this because if you are comparing three abilities fine, if you have to compare three abilities and how they might be effected by glyphs - that's confusing.<br /><br />Second, again I might be missing something here, but if you are a healer it would be nice if every time you got choices they had to do with healing and not other things. I realize that at endgame this may not matter much, but it would make leveling feel more rewarding.Gubjubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15101342990665867306noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20292755.post-43730981183474586772011-11-09T10:38:42.036-08:002011-11-09T10:38:42.036-08:00I still think Blizzard could leave talent trees in...I still think Blizzard could leave talent trees in the game during leveling, when they are great. <br /><br />At maxlvl you then have the tree filled out (almost) completely and go for the real endgame-choices.<br /><br />I don't see no reason to replace the talent trees during leveling with a one-choice-every-15-levels thing. The only reason I can find is that Blizzard doesn't care about the leveling ...Nilshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06468755466492675831noreply@blogger.com