Note: This page used to have all the hit caps for level 70. Because it was still getting linked and visitors, I have deleted all the data from the page, as it is now obsolete.
I've just started looking at this too. :) For shadow priests, the applicable talent is "Shadow Focus" and with 5/5 in that talent, the hit cap for priests is 75 (or 76 according to some, which might be the result of rounding the values).
...I hate linking in comments, but it would be disingenuous of me not to link to my friend Ambril who gave us much of the information this post on our website. Sorry for the double post. :)
Also good to note that in a typical raid (especially the 25-toon ones) classes can often get a buff to decrease the amount of +hit you need on gear.
For example, the Elementalist Shaman's Totem of Wrath talent that gives +3% spell hit/crit. So, a mage with Elemental Precision standing in range of the totem only has to have a +10% hit chance.
With such raid buffs (if those who give them are consistently in attendance) putting all the +hit on gear would be a waste.
Suggestion though I would expand the change the way the "per class" hit ratings are displayed for melee.
I would suggest * (Main Hand/Two handed) * (Offhand Weapon)
Cause even though a Dual Wielder needs an excessively high 403 Hit Rating as a base... that is only for the offhand, thier Main Hand should only require 136 Hit Rating as a base.
That way a rogue will know the minimum required to alway hit with thier main hand and energy attacks will be.
Draenei Shamen/Mages have a passive +1% to spellhit, and draenei warriors have a passive +1% to meleehit, both affects their entire group, but doesn't stack afaik.
While I understand the reasoning behind the Dual Wield hit cap, I'm kind of partial to 27.6% miss compared to 25.5%. Since 2-handed weapons only need 3.6% to hit L73 bosses--1% per level difference (not sure about this math) + 0.25% miss for defense-weapon skill difference--then one would assume that dual wield would gain 3.6% too. Does dual wield only gain 0.5% per level difference simply because you're using 2 weapons? or are the hit calculations that much different?
I'm not 100% sure of the mechanics behind the miss chance. I got most of my information about dual-wielding from the Elitist Jerks forums, and they generally know better than I do.
As well, the 308 number is pretty much gospel in the rogue community, so I'm fairly confident in that number.
"Draenei Shamen/Mages have a passive +1% to spellhit, and draenei warriors have a passive +1% to meleehit, both affects their entire group, but doesn't stack afaik."
You forgot the Draenei paladins, priests and hunters :P
Draenei: Mage/Shaman/Priest: 1% to hit with spells to all party members within 30 yards. Warrior/Paladin/Hunter: 1% to hit to all party members within 30 yards.
It does stack... in a very limited way. A draenei can get the buff from another draenei to get 2% to hit, but a non-draenei party member would not get the same buff twice.
In case you do want to add it, Priests also have a talent in the Discipline tree called Focused Power, which gives (admittedly) three spells an additional +hit rating. Focused Power gives an additional 2%/4% to hit with Smite, Mind Blast, and Holy Fire.
Shaman can spec the Totem of Wrath as well, allow an extra 3% hit, so totaling 12% with talents.....the idea of that is that our spells / mana is so ineffcient we can collect +crit in the place of +hit to allow mana regen in a way....
So essentially, spec'd for full raid purposes we only need +50 hit, to hit the cap...
This is great info, but for say a fury warrior, whats the point where X amount of AP is more of a benefit then Y amount of Hit rating. Anyone know where i can find this info.
Affliction warlocks should only need 3.2% hit, dots hit chance is devided by amount of ticks, lowest being drain life. 16% /5 = 3.2 ... suppression is useless it is 10% of 16% which is 1.6% which again even on drain life its only 0.8% chance to hit for 5 talent points lol. If ure a warlock that has never tried raiding without hit chance, try it and u will see..
This is the pure PVE spec that I opted for as a Lock. I'm still debating on whether or not the last point should go in Ruin or UA... but having spent so much gold on respecs, this build is the best DPS I've had. Just my 2 cents
Despite the wording of the talent, Arcane Subtletly actually gives you 10 Spell Penetration, and not 10 Spell Hit. It's good for lowering resistances, but not avoiding misses.
If Blizzard actually made a spell miss a "miss", it would be so much easier.
Yeah, the guy saying spell hit was divided by ticks is wrong. I'm doing about 1050 DPS with my current spec if you wanna check me out. Destro is more reliable for AoE fights, however. Also, penetration is generally unecessary unless you're dealing Nature damage. CoElements and CoShadow is 88 penetration and the mob SHOULD be debuffed with it.
Draeni Aura... Kiryn is correct it stacks for Draenis reason being it has a Passive and a Buff versions.
Each Draeni has it passive for themselves (reason it does not appear as a buff all the time)... but a display error doesnt make it show on character sheet :P Its there (confirmed from GM)
So Passive + Buff = 2%
That said in a raid, waist of it double stacking the aura spread it around :P
I am a bit confused by the wording of the two mage talents elemental precision and arcane subtelty. They both mention chance to resist for target and chance target resists respectively - how come one is spell penetration and one affects spell hit?
The problem here is that if a spell "misses" or is "resisted", you get the same message: "resist". But there are really two different causes for that one message.
As to how we know which is which, theorycrafters at places like Elitist Jerks have conducted experiments showing what each one does, and it's generally accepted that Arcane Subtlety is the same as Spell Penetration (affects resistances), and Elemental Precision is the same as Spell Hit.
I'm asking partly because I have the elemental precision talent which you say means you need to aquire less hit rating from gear, but my hit rating doesn't show any added bonus from this talent. An explanation would be very much welcome!
Because Elemental Precision only applies to some spells, not all your spells, your character pane won't show you the effect. You have to mentally remember that you get an extra +3% spell hit to Fire and Frost spells.
Hi mate, I've got a little site and was looking for more content to add. It deals with being an AOE Paladin for levelling. Came across your site in my searching and will have a read.
Ehm uhm... you can NEVER achieve 100% hit chance, the 1% miss is always there. So rogue for example, would need 308 hit rating (with talents) to get 99% hit chance on bosses.
Actually melee works differently than ranged and spell attacks. You CAN eliminate the chance to miss completely for melee attacks. This was not always the case but has been since before TBC was launched.
"Because tanks are in front of the boss, and can have their attacks dodged and parried, expertise rating is twice as valuable as hit rating for them. "
I know what you mean here, but what you have written is technically untrue, due to another 2.3 change: The chance to resist a Taunt/Growl/RD is now reduced by Hit Rating.
So, for the purposes of melee damage, yes, expertise is twice as valuable. It will also reduce missed Sunders etc.
However fewer resisted Taunts would be much harder to mathematically evaluate.
Speaking as an affliction warlock, spell hit translates to as many as 5 freed up talent points when u hit the 202 cap(not needing suppression any more). If this doesn't show the importance of spell hit I dont know what does!!
Any curious Enh Shamans have to remember, w/ 9% Hit, Windfury and Stormstrike will never miss. On top of that, our best abilities trigger on critical hits, increasing our speed and AP. If you talent for the 9% Hit you can tend to put off hit rating as a secondary stat.
I have read on the World of Warcraft forums that mages who raid as frost spec only need 123 hit rating. This has something to do with frostbolt having a glitch or something, but I would like to point it out.
For mages, Elemental Precision is currently bugged wrt frost spells - it gives an extra 1% per point thereby giving a frost mage with 3/3 Ele Prec a hit cap of 126.
Correct me if I am wrong but Orcs get 5 extertise (=19.75 expertise rating) when using an axe in either the main hand or the offhand.
So I as an orc enhancement shaman have 91 expertise rating cap when using a mace/fist weapon but 68.25 expertise rating cap when using an axe in a hand.
If I am not wrong it could be added in the list, for enhancement shamans and warriors - orcs ofc.
Thank you to whoever responded to my post about Frost Mage hit cap. Anyone know if this glitch has been fixed in recent patches, or if it is working as intended?
with a ele shaman do u have to have 88 spell hit and then natures guidance and ele precision or just 43 spell hit and ele precision and natures guidance
So I'm confused. Your chart seems to say that Arcane Mages only need to have 76 hit rating, while fire/frost mages need to have 164. Isn't that backwards, since elemental precision helps your hit rating?
In other words, Arcane mages need to have a lot more gear with +hit on it than fire/frost mages, right?
Hey, just wondering, is 325 hit rating; 24 expertise rating with 9.2k health and 2.1k AP unbuffed good for a raiding rogue. Or should I aim to rais emy hit and expertise a little and drop some of that wonderous agility/AP???
Blobbie: Get as close to hit capped as you can, your white damage is likely to be 2/3rds of your DPS, especially for sword spec and slice and dice.
Totemcrazy: You need the 88 hit rating, however you are likely going to have totem of wrath down all the time, and i have heard they stack (at least the crit, unsure about the hit). So you should go for 50 hit rating, then damage and crit.
I've just started looking at this too. :) For shadow priests, the applicable talent is "Shadow Focus" and with 5/5 in that talent, the hit cap for priests is 75 (or 76 according to some, which might be the result of rounding the values).
ReplyDelete...I hate linking in comments, but it would be disingenuous of me not to link to my friend Ambril who gave us much of the information this post on our website. Sorry for the double post. :)
ReplyDeleteBoomkins can get plus 4 to hit with spells via talents in the balance tree.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info. I've updated the post. It should be complete now. Let me know if I've missed anything.
ReplyDeleteAlso good to note that in a typical raid (especially the 25-toon ones) classes can often get a buff to decrease the amount of +hit you need on gear.
ReplyDeleteFor example, the Elementalist Shaman's Totem of Wrath talent that gives +3% spell hit/crit. So, a mage with Elemental Precision standing in range of the totem only has to have a +10% hit chance.
With such raid buffs (if those who give them are consistently in attendance) putting all the +hit on gear would be a waste.
Thanks for this. Also, Troll hunters with bows and Dwarf hunters with guns have a hit cap of 116.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the article, very enlightening.
ReplyDeleteSuggestion though I would expand the change the way the "per class" hit ratings are displayed for melee.
I would suggest
* (Main Hand/Two handed)
* (Offhand Weapon)
Cause even though a Dual Wielder needs an excessively high 403 Hit Rating as a base... that is only for the offhand, thier Main Hand should only require 136 Hit Rating as a base.
That way a rogue will know the minimum required to alway hit with thier main hand and energy attacks will be.
That said, I would love to see what the exact numbers required for a rogue to have +Hit Cap for just Main Hand attacks.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I know, and from what research I've found, the 25.5% miss rate applies to both Main Hand and Off-Hand.
ReplyDeleteHowever, you are correct that Special attacks only have the 8.6% miss chance.
Draenei Shamen/Mages have a passive +1% to spellhit, and draenei warriors have a passive +1% to meleehit, both affects their entire group, but doesn't stack afaik.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhile I understand the reasoning behind the Dual Wield hit cap, I'm kind of partial to 27.6% miss compared to 25.5%. Since 2-handed weapons only need 3.6% to hit L73 bosses--1% per level difference (not sure about this math) + 0.25% miss for defense-weapon skill difference--then one would assume that dual wield would gain 3.6% too. Does dual wield only gain 0.5% per level difference simply because you're using 2 weapons? or are the hit calculations that much different?
ReplyDeleteI'm not 100% sure of the mechanics behind the miss chance. I got most of my information about dual-wielding from the Elitist Jerks forums, and they generally know better than I do.
ReplyDeleteAs well, the 308 number is pretty much gospel in the rogue community, so I'm fairly confident in that number.
Humans get +5 skill for maces and swords, which I believe translates into +8 hit for those two weapons [among other things].
ReplyDeleteSo, humans hit cap should be lower for those two weapons than for other weapons.
"Draenei Shamen/Mages have a passive +1% to spellhit, and draenei warriors have a passive +1% to meleehit, both affects their entire group, but doesn't stack afaik."
ReplyDeleteYou forgot the Draenei paladins, priests and hunters :P
Draenei:
Mage/Shaman/Priest: 1% to hit with spells to all party members within 30 yards.
Warrior/Paladin/Hunter: 1% to hit to all party members within 30 yards.
It does stack... in a very limited way. A draenei can get the buff from another draenei to get 2% to hit, but a non-draenei party member would not get the same buff twice.
Just a small thing, but the rogue talent to increase weapon skill is called "Weapon Expertise", not "Combat Expertise" as you have listed it.
ReplyDeleteGreat post though. It's nice to see all the classes listed together. Gives me a one stop shop when I get into these discussions with people. ;)
I thought there is always a 1% chance to miss regardless of your hit rating. Does that mean the +hit cap is actually 1% less than what is listed here?
ReplyDeleteDave, there is a 1% chance for spells to miss, but not for physical attacks. I've updated the post to note that.
ReplyDeletee, thanks for the correction.
To all the others who commented on racials, you are correct. I'll try and add a section listing all the racial modifiers.
Druid's + hit is also effected by Feral Combat Skill stat using this formula.
ReplyDeleteRating/3.9 * .04 increase to hit
In case you do want to add it, Priests also have a talent in the Discipline tree called Focused Power, which gives (admittedly) three spells an additional +hit rating. Focused Power gives an additional 2%/4% to hit with Smite, Mind Blast, and Holy Fire.
ReplyDeleteThanks very much for this post. It's great to have a reference for the hit caps needed for all different classes and specs.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I wish you had covered, however, is the effect of weapon skill.
Shaman can spec the Totem of Wrath as well, allow an extra 3% hit, so totaling 12% with talents.....the idea of that is that our spells / mana is so ineffcient we can collect +crit in the place of +hit to allow mana regen in a way....
ReplyDeleteSo essentially, spec'd for full raid purposes we only need +50 hit, to hit the cap...
You forget shamans totem of wrath which adds a 3% hit chance with spells. A true elemental shaman has this up if he is casting spells.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that you mustn't sacrifice too many other stats just to max your hit rating against bosses.
ReplyDeleteYou may go from 87% to-hit to 99% to-hit, but if it means your spells now only hit half as hard, then your DPS will be much lower overall.
Very interresting,
ReplyDeleteBut what about the dual special attack Mutilate ?
That, and Stormstrike. I assume they are both included in "Special Attacks," though not based on the main hand?
ReplyDeletewho says that a rogue needs 8,6 hit for styles? its 5% !
ReplyDelete5% against level 70s, 8.6% against bosses (level 73).
ReplyDeleteAs for Mutilitate/Stormstrike, I'm not sure. I would guess that they are 8.6%, like all the other specials.
Helped me tons as a raiding rogue.
ReplyDeleteThanks alot.
This is great info, but for say a fury warrior, whats the point where X amount of AP is more of a benefit then Y amount of Hit rating. Anyone know where i can find this info.
ReplyDeleteMutilate is effected by the Special attack hit rating.
ReplyDeleteHowever over 50% of your damage as a Rogue is from normal (*white) dmage. the remainder is dots, finishers, and specials.
Any PvE rogue will keep SND up constantly. and the more of those white attacks you hit, the more damage you do, the more poisons that proc. etc.
Affliction warlocks should only need 3.2% hit, dots hit chance is devided by amount of ticks, lowest being drain life. 16% /5 = 3.2 ... suppression is useless it is 10% of 16% which is 1.6% which again even on drain life its only 0.8% chance to hit for 5 talent points lol. If ure a warlock that has never tried raiding without hit chance, try it and u will see..
ReplyDeleteThe person above me is an idiot re: warlocks, his information is completely incorrect.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Azgalor&n=Kwirbkilla
ReplyDeleteThis is the pure PVE spec that I opted for as a Lock. I'm still debating on whether or not the last point should go in Ruin or UA... but having spent so much gold on respecs, this build is the best DPS I've had. Just my 2 cents
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGrabbed the warlock spec from above, in case of respec by player.
ReplyDeleteNOTE: I know shit all about warlocks, I am just starting to do some research for friends. So I have no comment on if this is a good spec.
Mages also have a talent called Arcane Subtelty which reduces target's resistance to all your spells by 10.
ReplyDeleteThis can be specced into ontop of Elemental Precision: Reduces chance your frost and fire spells get resisted by 3%
Despite the wording of the talent, Arcane Subtletly actually gives you 10 Spell Penetration, and not 10 Spell Hit. It's good for lowering resistances, but not avoiding misses.
ReplyDeleteIf Blizzard actually made a spell miss a "miss", it would be so much easier.
Thanks for the clarification, when wording gets in the way u know something is wrong, especially when some mages have +spell penetration gems
ReplyDeleteYeah, the guy saying spell hit was divided by ticks is wrong. I'm doing about 1050 DPS with my current spec if you wanna check me out. Destro is more reliable for AoE fights, however. Also, penetration is generally unecessary unless you're dealing Nature damage. CoElements and CoShadow is 88 penetration and the mob SHOULD be debuffed with it.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blood Furnace&n=Sydd
Human Rogues using swords need 8 less hit rating to cap out.
ReplyDeleteFor example: if ur cap is 308 with all the talents, u will only need 300 hit rating to be at the ceiling.
Draeni Aura...
ReplyDeleteKiryn is correct it stacks for Draenis reason being it has a Passive and a Buff versions.
Each Draeni has it passive for themselves (reason it does not appear as a buff all the time)... but a display error doesnt make it show on character sheet :P Its there (confirmed from GM)
So Passive + Buff = 2%
That said in a raid, waist of it double stacking the aura spread it around :P
I am a bit confused by the wording of the two mage talents elemental precision and arcane subtelty. They both mention chance to resist for target and chance target resists respectively - how come one is spell penetration and one affects spell hit?
ReplyDeleteThe problem here is that if a spell "misses" or is "resisted", you get the same message: "resist". But there are really two different causes for that one message.
As to how we know which is which, theorycrafters at places like Elitist Jerks have conducted experiments showing what each one does, and it's generally accepted that Arcane Subtlety is the same as Spell Penetration (affects resistances), and Elemental Precision is the same as Spell Hit.
I'm asking partly because I have the elemental precision talent which you say means you need to aquire less hit rating from gear, but my hit rating doesn't show any added bonus from this talent. An explanation would be very much welcome!
Because Elemental Precision only applies to some spells, not all your spells, your character pane won't show you the effect. You have to mentally remember that you get an extra +3% spell hit to Fire and Frost spells.
Added Rogue's Hit Rating Calculations in my rogue addon.
ReplyDeletehttp://wow.cn.curse.com/downloads/details/8437/
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi mate, I've got a little site and was looking for more content to add. It deals with being an AOE Paladin for levelling. Came across your site in my searching and will have a read.
ReplyDeletehttp://aoepaladin.blogspot.com/
Ehm uhm... you can NEVER achieve 100% hit chance, the 1% miss is always there. So rogue for example, would need 308 hit rating (with talents) to get 99% hit chance on bosses.
ReplyDeleteTo the above comment:
ReplyDeleteActually melee works differently than ranged and spell attacks. You CAN eliminate the chance to miss completely for melee attacks. This was not always the case but has been since before TBC was launched.
"Because tanks are in front of the boss, and can have their attacks dodged and parried, expertise rating is twice as valuable as hit rating for them. "
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean here, but what you have written is technically untrue, due to another 2.3 change: The chance to resist a Taunt/Growl/RD is now reduced by Hit Rating.
So, for the purposes of melee damage, yes, expertise is twice as valuable. It will also reduce missed Sunders etc.
However fewer resisted Taunts would be much harder to mathematically evaluate.
Meadhbh.
(BTW - love the site here!)
Where does the 308 come from when according to your ratings, 363 is the minimum needed with talents.
ReplyDeleteConfused now :S
308 was the old pre-2.3 cap.
ReplyDeleteMeadhbh, you are correct. I should probably make a note about that.
Speaking as an affliction warlock, spell hit translates to as many as 5 freed up talent points when u hit the 202 cap(not needing suppression any more). If this doesn't show the importance of spell hit I dont know what does!!
ReplyDeletea note that since 2.3, the dwarf and troll racial now adds 1% crit with bows and guns respectively instead of increased weapon expertise.
ReplyDeleteSo an enhancement shaman should not get additional +hit, and focus entirely on crit/AP/expertise?
ReplyDeleteShamans should only gem with crit/str or str
ReplyDeleteAny curious Enh Shamans have to remember, w/ 9% Hit, Windfury and Stormstrike will never miss. On top of that, our best abilities trigger on critical hits, increasing our speed and AP. If you talent for the 9% Hit you can tend to put off hit rating as a secondary stat.
ReplyDeleteI have read on the World of Warcraft forums that mages who raid as frost spec only need 123 hit rating. This has something to do with frostbolt having a glitch or something, but I would like to point it out.
ReplyDeleteThank you!
ReplyDeleteI get tired of people telling my my hit on my warrior is too low when I'm sitting at about 13% with +hit and talents.
I'll be linking to this from my guild forums.
Thank you!
ReplyDeleteI always look back this page when i 'forget' how the caps are set :)
I am glad you updated, including expertise.
Great work!
Wow, really great post, thank you so much. I'll definitely be checking back here!
ReplyDeleteFor mages, Elemental Precision is currently bugged wrt frost spells - it gives an extra 1% per point thereby giving a frost mage with 3/3 Ele Prec a hit cap of 126.
ReplyDeleteCorrect me if I am wrong but Orcs get 5 extertise (=19.75 expertise rating) when using an axe in either the main hand or the offhand.
ReplyDeleteSo I as an orc enhancement shaman have 91 expertise rating cap when using a mace/fist weapon but 68.25 expertise rating cap when using an axe in a hand.
If I am not wrong it could be added in the list, for enhancement shamans and warriors - orcs ofc.
Thank you to whoever responded to my post about Frost Mage hit cap. Anyone know if this glitch has been fixed in recent patches, or if it is working as intended?
ReplyDelete"Ghost hit" is still in place for frost. The cap with 3/3 precision is 126.
ReplyDeletewith a ele shaman do u have to have 88 spell hit and then natures guidance and ele precision or just 43 spell hit and ele precision and natures guidance
ReplyDeletetotemcrazy, you need 88 Spell Hit with natures guidance and ele precision for raid bosses.
ReplyDeleteSo I'm confused. Your chart seems to say that Arcane Mages only need to have 76 hit rating, while fire/frost mages need to have 164. Isn't that backwards, since elemental precision helps your hit rating?
ReplyDeleteIn other words, Arcane mages need to have a lot more gear with +hit on it than fire/frost mages, right?
In other words, Arcane mages need to have a lot more gear with +hit on it than fire/frost mages, right?
ReplyDeleteNo, Arcane Focus helps hit rating for arcane spells. An Arcane mage needs less hit rating (assuming she only casts arcane spells).
Hey, just wondering, is 325 hit rating; 24 expertise rating with 9.2k health and 2.1k AP unbuffed good for a raiding rogue. Or should I aim to rais emy hit and expertise a little and drop some of that wonderous agility/AP???
ReplyDeleteThank-you in advance
Sorry for double post, but just thought I'd mention: this is not my current gear, it is gear I am (gradually =]) working towards.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great site. Thank you for your information. I THANK YOU I SALUTE YOU IT,S A AMZING SITE.
ReplyDeleteBlobbie: Get as close to hit capped as you can, your white damage is likely to be 2/3rds of your DPS, especially for sword spec and slice and dice.
ReplyDeleteTotemcrazy: You need the 88 hit rating, however you are likely going to have totem of wrath down all the time, and i have heard they stack (at least the crit, unsure about the hit). So you should go for 50 hit rating, then damage and crit.
If you are an alliance shammy then even better!
ReplyDelete"Mage/Priest/Shaman Draenai Aura: -12.6 spell hit rating needed"
Looks like you only REALLY need 38 spell hit rating :P
Yay raid in greens and hit more then people in purples :P