Well, 4.0.1 is almost upon us, and with it comes the biggest shakeup in the game systems that we've seen in a long time. Here are some thoughts on Holy's new spec and glyphs for level 80. For the glyph's section, I'm looking at the Holy-focused glyphs only.
Talent Spec
Looking at the talent trees, I think there are two major decision points for Holy Paladins:
Long-range or short-range Judgements?
Judgment gives a 9% haste buff, but you need to spend 4 talent points if you want to be able to judge effectively from range. If you think you can survive without long-range Judgements, that frees up 4 points which you can spend on other talents.
Divinity or Crusade?
Divinity gives +6% to all your heals. Crusade gives +30% to Holy Shock. At 80, you don't have enough talent points to get both.
You will be using Holy Shock a lot, and 30% is a large enough buff that it can actively change how you use the spell. With Crusade, maybe you'll be able to Holy Shock in a place where you would have had to use Flash of Light.
In contrast, Divinity adds 6% to all your healing. It's constant and works with everything.
My thoughts
Right now, I'm leaning toward taking Long-range Judgements and Crusade. I'll have to relearn how to play Holy Paladin, and not needing to mess around with range, and being able to judge like normal will reduce the learning curve.
As for Crusade/Divinity, at 85 we will be taking both talents. There's a risk that if I don't take Crusade, I may end up not using HS like I should, because it will be much less powerful than it will be at 85.
Sample Builds
LR+Crusade: 31/0/5
LR+Divinity: 31/3/2
SR+Crusade: 31/2/3
SR+Divinity: 31/3/2
Prime Glyphs
Divine Favor - Increases the duration of Divine Favor by 10 sec.
Holy Shock - Increases the critical effect chance of Holy Shock by 5%.
Seal of Insight - While Seal of Insight is active, the effect of your healing spells is increased by 5%.
Word of Glory - Increases the healing done by Word of Glory by 10%.
My choices are Holy Shock, Seal of Insight, and Word of Glory. Those are the spells that will get used all the time.
Major Glyphs
Beacon of Light - Increases the duration of Beacon of Light by 30 sec.
Cleanse - Reduces the mana cost of your Cleanse by 20%.
Divine Plea - Your Divine Plea provides an additional 5% of your total mana.
Divinity - Your Lay on Hands grants twice as much mana as normal and also grants you as much mana as it grants your target.
Light of Dawn - Reduces the cooldown of Light of Dawn by 10 sec and the amount healed by 20%.
Hand of Salvation - Hand of Salvation no longer permanently reduces threat over time but instead reduces all threat as long as Hand of Salvation lasts.
Long Word - Your Word of Glory heals for 50% less up front, but provides an additional 50% healing over 6 sec.
My choices are going to be Beacon of Light, Divinity, and Long Word.
I don't think we need to worry about mana just yet, so Cleanse is out. As for Divine Plea, I don't think we will use it on cooldown. If it turns out that paladins are using it on cooldown, I expect it to be nerfed until we only use it in emergencies. Or possibly by macro'ing '/cancel Divine Plea' to all our healing spells.
Light of Dawn is a 20% increase in effectiveness if you are using it on cooldown. But it feels like the type of spell you save for exactly the right time, not a spell that you use every chance you get. Hand of Salvation is interesting, but I think that permanent threat reduction is going to be more useful. Temporary threat reduction can save someone after they pull, but we already have Hand of Protection for that.
Long Word makes WoG different than HS, and I think that will be important, rather just having WoG be a HS clone.
Minor Glyphs
Blessing of Kings - Reduces the mana cost of Blessing of Kings by 50%.
Blessing of Might - Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Might by 50%.
Seal of Insight - Reduces the mana cost of Seal of Insight by 50%.
Lay on Hands - Reduces the cooldown of your Lay on Hands spell by 2 min.
I think our Minor glyphs are the most boring out of all the classes. I'm taking Lay on Hands and Seal of Insight. Kings and Might is a toss up, but I'll take Kings for style.
Long Word is AWFUL, even worse than the old Flash of Light glyph it's a clone of. I think it's designed for prot paladins.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between HS and WoG is that WoG is free and has no cooldown, so we're able to use two different spells instantly, giving us more potency on the run.
Long range Judgements may mean the difference between being in Silence range or not, and that can be critical to Healing. I tend to err on the side of longer range any time I can.
ReplyDeleteWell, you don't actually have to be in melee, even with short range judgements. You only need to judge once a minute, as Judgement doesn't have the healing/mana debuff anymore. And if you can't get 100% uptime on the haste buff, it's not the end of the world.
ReplyDeleteWith a lot of our healing going to FoL and WoG, we're a lot more mobile than we used to be. It's conceivable that we could run into melee range, judge, run out, while still throwing out HS and WoG.
Long Word is an absolutely terrible glyph. What's worse is that if you have to WoG the same target the hot will overwrite the new one causing you to LOSE healing.
ReplyDeleteIf you plan on raiding at all, the Divine Protection glyph is absolutely GODLY.
Why 3 points in Protector of Innocent instead of Paragon of Virtue? (I'm sorry if I sound rude but I mean it as a honest question.)
ReplyDeleteI planned to use 2/3 PotI and maybe even only 1 point in Enlightened Judgements to get Paragon of Virtue: I think I (or other healers) can and will have to heal myself if I get any damage and so much self-healing is not needed; 5-yard range is not a great improvement since I only have 40 yards on my heals and 30 yards on LoD. Regarding the hit rating from Enlightened Judgements, I'll aim for 99%+ hit on judgements and I'll see whether I need a point or two.
This: http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#sMIbzrkuufz at level 69 (or with 2 points in Enlightened and 1 point in PoV)
However, I haven't played in beta or PTR and I found a couple of people taking 3/3 PotI so I'm wondering what's so good about it that I'm missing thanks to my low experience?
The main question I've seen on the Long Word glyph is if it operates like the original FoL glyph, providing 50% extra healing overall. The language appears similar. If it does provide extra healing then I can see it being useful in a 25man raid where a lot more targets are taking damage and locking some of them from additional WoG is less of a problem.
ReplyDeleteThe minor glyphs for both Blessings look like a better choice than for the Seal. I know I spend a lot more mana in combat re-blessing resurrected players than I ever do refreshing my Seal because I forgot beforehand.
My instincts are telling me 1/2 Enlightened Judgements should provide decent +Hit. Losing a small amount of range is a good trade for Eternal Glory or the other tier 1 Ret & Prot talents.
Protector of the Innocent looks a little silly, but 2/3 there helps me heal better than 2/3 Arbiter.
Paragon of Virtue looks very handy and going 2/2 there seems more useful than having 1 more point available for the other trees.
I'm looking at the following for lvl 85: http://wowtal.com/#k=kmIpOCxmD.a5o.paladin.
The thing about Protector of the Innocent is that it effectively allows you to heal 3 people at the same time: yourself, your target, and the Beacon target.
ReplyDeleteI think never having to really worry about your own health will be more important than reducing cooldowns.
joeego, that's a good point about both Blessing minor glyphs.
4 talent points for long-range Judgements. Is it me, or does that seem VERY expensive (8 points in terms of today's talent trees)?
ReplyDeleteI think it is safe to argue that we are the most durable healing class, given the plate armor and shield. Without having seen any Beta content, I just wonder if this is a push toward putting Paladin's closer to (in the No Man's Land between casters and melee) or into melee range, silence mechanics notwithstanding.
It would certainly be another way to differentiate the class.
A few things:
ReplyDeleteGlyph of Long Word does not exist. On beta, on PTR, on live. Sorry. It's also bad. In an environment where there is a lot less overhealing, halving your initial heal serves zero purpose.
Eternal Glory is borderline OP. Not sure why none of your builds even think about it.
Long Ranged Judge isn't 4 points. It's 2 in Holy, 2 In Ret, you don't need both. 30 yard judge is plenty, at 2 points.
Glyph of Divine Protection, and Paragon of Virtue (another amazing talent you skip over completely) are VERY good for raiding in an environment where healing is limited and damage mitigation is king.
Last Word isn't very good at 80 (or 85). People below 35% are usual dead. How often are you going to have 3 HP exactly when someone hits below 35%? Before anyone else heals them? 1/50 fights.
This is what I picked for a spec
ReplyDeletehttp://cata.wowhead.com/talent#scIbzrduufzhbZzb:maVdsrmzM
I went with Divinity, and got Eternal Glory instead of Crusade, and the 40 yard Judgment.
Glyph Wise I went with Divine favor instead of WoG, and Divine Plea of Long Word. I just remember how weak the old FoL glyph was, and I know that I am going to want WoG to pack a punch.
Also as mentioned, Paragon of Virtue seems to be a pretty nice talent for both output and survivability.
Well, I am definitely planning on Eternal Glory for 85. But at 80, mana didn't seem to be that big a deal, so I think the other talents (Crusade/Divinity/Improved Judgement) are more immediately important.
ReplyDeleteplaying on the PTR i found i used WoG and HS alot, thus any glyph that improves them (not lessening them) is the way to go.
ReplyDeleteI think as a healer, when speccing, ask yourself very simple questions 1. How offten would i use that? and 2. Does it make my heals better?
and you can't really go wrong
@Chase I don't think Long Word Major Glyph is awful at all. The point of cataclysm is normalizing all healing classes so that no one healer is spamming their strongest suit. And this is very apparent on Beta with [at least] heroic dungeons.
ReplyDeleteWe already have massive overhealing, I think Long Word is a great "practice" glyph to start changing the way paladin heals - instead of waiting for HP to drop below certain threshold before we "react" to it - this glyph provides paladin a little more initiative to proactively heal and start to manage/prioritize who to heal by providing more effective over-time healing vs. one time effective/overheal cut-off.
On beta, it is very common to not be able to keep all 5 member of your party topped off, and often we are limited by our GCD and "weaker" A/E capacities - this is why managing what little HoTs and A/E spells that we have is crucial.
RIP Bubble Hearth.
ReplyDeleteRIP DI.
You will be missed.
"If you plan on raiding at all, the Divine Protection glyph is absolutely GODLY"
ReplyDeleteAgree, especially talented to 40s.
Regarding the judgement talents. I'd suggest one of each. You'll have enough hit with only 1/2 and the other will give you 10 yards. I.e. 15 yards without a chance of missing.
@Johnny: "Long Word is an absolutely terrible glyph. What's worse is that if you have to WoG the same target the hot will overwrite the new one causing you to LOSE healing."
ReplyDeleteIncorrect. Casting a lesser heal simply refreshes the damage bubble, it does not replace it. Check out the buff next time you're messing around with it; the damage absorption bubble simply refreshes, even when a lower heal is cast.
Looks like the builds have all disappeared (I'm getting a blank calculator). Can they be reposted?
ReplyDeleteUpdated. Not sure what happened to the WoWTal builds.
ReplyDeleteIt probably takes longer to obtain 3 charges of HP then there will be a neccesaty to re-spell WoG with the long word glyph. Combine it with the mastary bubble, and the Long Word glyph gives u a better Heal management when u are raid healing. I personaly going for the short range Judge and LoDawn improvement to become a better melee healer, being as close I can be to melee group. The aura mastery talent is needed for this to counter interrupt spells etc.
ReplyDeleteGlyph Divinity is rubbish, I use LoH once every other year, it still is a tank heal panicbutton.
I think the developers achieved what they were going after in that one person may prefer particular glyphs/talents over others, with none being particularly the "good/bad" way to go.
ReplyDeleteIt's triggered a healthy debate for the healadin community.
I'm up in the air on Long Word. Losing the SS/FoL HoT, unless I'm missing something, it doesn't look like we've got a HoT anymore unless we take that glyph. Adding that with the 30% chance of not consuming Holy Power is something to be considered
With Beacon of Light being a relatively easy cast and lasting 60 secs, I don't understand taking it over other glyphs for an extra 30 seconds unless unless it's to preserve mana. I can't see passing on Divine Plea for that. (In addition, being able to learn all glyphs once and switch them out as needed is an additional factor to consider).
And there other topics also. I haven't been able to try out the variations yet to determine what's going to work best for me.
I wonder, though, about the tuning through levels. I feel fairly certain it's ironed out for 85. Not so sure about levels building up to that though.
Everyone makes good points for their arguments on all sides. I think the days of cookie cutting are behind us and we're going to see more diversity in the healadin community, which is a good thing.
Blessed Life 2/2 is a must have if you do Arthas or any ICC-hardmodes as holy. You have massive raid-damage and you gain holy power all the time = free heals.
ReplyDelete"Light of Dawn is a 20% increase in effectiveness if you are using it on cooldown."
ReplyDeleteDoesn't the wording mean it's a *reduction* in effectiveness of 20%? I read it as "you can cast it more often but it heals for less"...
The Light of Dawn glyph is a net increase in healing overall. The cooldown reduction outweighs the loss in healing per cast.
ReplyDeleteI find that combining 3/3 Tower of Radiance with the Glyph of Beacon allows me to simply cast cheap holy lights on the tank and build up HP until I get a WoG. That with 2/2 Eternal Glory lets me jump around the group with free heals. Add that to using HS to heal group and gaining and maintaining 3 HP is very easy.
ReplyDeleteConsidering the mana cost of Holy Light and HS, plus the free WoG for big heals and I have no problems with mana or putting out enough healing to keep everyone topped off. If you need oh crap healing, a HS and a WoG is an easy way to top off a tank since you will always have charges of HP.
About the minor glyphs, as BoK and the drood buff are now the same, I'll just take the Lay on Hands, Blessing of Might and Seal of insight. I NEVER cast a BoK in a raid as it erase the druid buff, only cast BoM after a BRez.
ReplyDeleteI will say that I agree with Dante above. The healadin is far more diverse than it used to be. With the choice of utilizing an optional HoT or going with range and instant heals, one has far more to work with than before. I have found both types to be effective in healing while playing on my alts. I personally choose to spam Holy Light while using HS and WoG as back ups. FoL is a great spell for moments when many people within your party or raid need a quick re-fill on health too. Over-all It's exciting to see such a debate spark up among fellow healadins! As far a Glyphs go. I've been messing around with many of them and still haven't quite found a great mix. I do think, though, that it all depends on how mana-efficient one wants to be (not that us paladins aren't mana-efficient already).
ReplyDeleteNow that LoD is Holy Power related Eternal Glory is looking better, when in an encounter with sufficient aoe damage popping LoD would be automatic to have not consumed my hp would be awesome. Obviously I know it only has a 30% chance of not consuming. Also I've been finding LoD very helpful for P3 lk hc throne room.
ReplyDeleteWAS wondering if Tower of Radiance is a need in pvp.? cause i think i will use my beacon of light on my self:
ReplyDelete