Wednesday, January 26, 2011

Odd PuG Group

Had a rather interesting pickup group the other day. It was heroic Blackrock Caverns.

I zoned in and joined Tank1, Dps1, Dps2, and Dps3. They were all from the same guild. We kill the first boss, good group, all DPS over 9k. I'm thinking it will be a quick clean run.

Then Tank1 leaves the group. Tank2 joins from LFD. Then Dps1, Dps2, and Dps3 leave as well. They are replaced by Dps4, Dps5, and Dps6.

I'm not really certain what's going on, but we continue on to Corla. We wipe once, because it's Dps4's first time with the beams, and he screws up. Dps5 and Dps6 leave the group, and are replaced with Dps7 and Dps8.

We kill Corla cleanly and move on. We wipe once on Karsh Steelbender, I think because the tank didn't pull the boss out of the fire fast enough. Tank2 leaves, followed by Dps7 and Dps8.

Tank3 joins along with Dps9 and Dps10. We kill Karsh Steelbender, and then kill the end boss, skipping Beauty.

It was a really odd run. There were only two wipes, one per boss, so it wasn't like a wipefest. Yet I went through 3 tanks and 10 dps to complete that run.


  1. It's odd that people leave a group pretty much instantly after waiting very long (40min for DPS) and accepting a 30 min debuff.
    Instead they could give it another try - or a few more.

    But I've gotta say I've seen this happen in PUGs a lot.
    One time in Stonecore - Ozruk Boss - we went through 5 different tanks, which all left after 1 or 2 wipes (caused by tanks not moving out) until we finally got someone, who stayed a little longer until he got a hold of the fight.

  2. Was there a lot of complains in party chat or anything? Usually drops like that are accompanied by lots of recriminations and in-fighting.

  3. I ran heroic dead mines with a 4/5 guild run, just missing a tank. Good DPS, great healer (tee hee hee).

    We killed two bosses, had no wipes, and went through 7 tanks. After the 7th dropped we all called it, as we had already been in there for an hour and a half, mostly waiting for the next tank.

  4. They leave to "keep their faces". Wiping once is "bad luck". If he would wipe the team more or ask for help with tactics he would be observed "noob".

    There is a reason why these people are using the forsaken LFD.

  5. If the whole initial group left after the first boss in BRC it could have been them looking for specific loot.

    I know that boss has one of the only 2 pairs of spellpower mail bracers (346 lvl). The other is off of a final boss. He also drops a tank shield.

  6. My guess is from the first group one of them wanted somethign from the first boss and they queued together to make it faster. Beyond that, folks quit way to fast. Too be fair, I've had nights where I didn't feel 100% and to get Grim Batol and have a tank pull multiple packs with no cc, then ask why you aren't keeping em up. I can't quit those fast enough.

  7. I don't quite understand why people leave groups so quickly, particularly the DPS, unless it's just obvious the group is undergeared and wiping time after time after time.

    What disturbs me even more though, is how quickly some people are to want to vote-kick other players, either for being "lolterrible" or "wrathbaby" or whatever reason posted- it seems some folks just think everyone should be as perfect as the kicker (thinks he) is and there isn't any redeeming the group after a wipe.

    I think the biggest problem with LGD these days is lack of communication between the multi-realm participants. I had 2 guildies and a tank friend pug an extra dps in H Blackrock the other day, and while we had a little trouble with the bosses due to the tank not knowing all the mechanics forwards and backwards (many of us dont!) we still made it through, even got [Too Hot To Handle] all because everyone was willing to talk stuff out. It's amazing what a little gruop discussion can do for you.

  8. I kind of expected this to happen. What you have is a bunch of people who are spoiled by Wrath heroics; they are used to "gogogo" facerolling every heroic in 20 minutes and think they have the right to do it here too.

    Cataclysm heroics are harder, partly because of the mechanics and partly because we're not all decked out in crazy end-end-endgame heroic final raid loot. They require caution and crowd control. Blizzard even says they want it that way.

    But you have people who (1) aren't expected to have to use actual strategy, and (2) don't think any group ever wipes. So they behave badly and give up quickly when things don't go well.

  9. I have yet to bring myself to heal a heroic PUG. I've done a few heroics guild runs and normal PUGs. The difference between a guild run and a PUG run is large enough that I feel that I may not be ready for a PUG Heroic.

    I might try doing a few as DPS first though.

  10. For the first guild group that left after boss#1, they probably queued to get the tank a Shield of the Iron Maiden.

  11. People have so many alts that the 30 minute debuff doesn't matter to them. Add to that the fact that some of their alts are tanks/healers, and they'll just drop group get on their tank/healer and be right back doing a dungeon in no time. Why do they do this? Because we're all spoiled to the quick bam-bam-bam runs of wrath. I think it's too late to change peoples' views on this, and blizz just needs to bring back the breeze-thru heroics, and lets the raiders move on to raiding for hours on end if they wish.

  12. I'm guessing the tank was pally and wanted the mace from the first boss for healing. Dps were with him just to help him get it and that they didn't all leave at once so as to not screw you.

  13. The alts thing doesn't apply to everyone. I once had a BRC run where a dk left after one wipe on Corla, got replaced, we downed her and moved on, another dps had to leave and we got the dk back. I told them what happened, and they still left after the first wipe on the fire boss.


  14. I think dropping group is like a vomit wave - y'know, once somebody does it, everybody does it. Even if the group is largely sound.

  15. Ive never really quite figured out why leaving a group is so contagious. Its almost as if people are in a group because they kinda wanna be there but hey are really just itching for someone to leave so they can go sit in a main city and troll trade chat. Its very weird to me. I remember when people just hit 85 and you could really tell who played in BC heroics and who was Wrath of The Fail King players. WOTLK dumbed down everything and i think it was so blizzard could get anyone to play no matter how aweful they were. Mindless AOE!!!! Why in BC you couldn't do a heroic unless you had the right class build up...and im so glad the heorics were back to that standard in CATA. If people leave a pug just try to motivate the rest of the group to stay or find a buddy to replace them!!

  16. Because, of course, most people who play don't actually want to play in a pick up group. They want to play with their friends, or to raid, or what have you.

    A pick up group is, for most, a stressful activity that they would really rather avoid. Therefore it's treated, not as a chance to play the game, but as a chore to be disposed of as quickly as possible so you can get on with the rest of life.

    With that in mind, dropping as soon as some adversity is encountered is a very understandable, even rational, strategy. If we can "knock through it" in a short run, great! I now have my drop / points / chance at a Chaos Orb. If not... well, drop group, and lets see what's on the TV, and maybe better luck, tomorrow or whenever.

    This isn't "maximizing dungeon running fun" or even "maximizing in game fun." It's maximizing the utilization of my time as a whole.

    For me, personally, if I start a run I want to finish it, top to bottom. So I ponder a multi-hour, fill in lots of folks, who knows how it will go PuG, look at the tiny Justice Point reward, log off, and go read a book. Haven't done a single PuG yet this expansion. Could I? Sure. I'm not actually afraid of failure. But I also don't find the dungeons I've run with my guildmates to be all that fun, either... gimmicky, messy things where most of the challenge is provided by big hits. Memorizing 30 bosses worth of "dance moves" isn't my idea of fun. So I'm just skipping the whole mess, mostly. I'll either gear up quick enough with my raiding, or... well, hm. Other games beckon? We'll see.

  17. I am in agreement w/ Gevlon. They left to "save face". However, sometimes the situation IS salvageable.

    Had a similar situation in BRC the other night. The pug tank was having trouble keeping the debuff on Karsh Steelbender. He offered to step out after 4 wipes, even though he got better on each attempt. I told him we will vote/kick if he wipes the fifth time so he doesn't get the lockout, and he agreed.

    Clean kill on the fifth attempt. We skipped Beauty and one-shotted last boss.

    Sure beats having the tank leave group and having to wait in queue for another potentially worse tank. Sometimes all people need is a little more time and a little less ego.