Monday, May 09, 2011

Crowd Control Changes

Big Bear Butt has a good post talking about the changes coming for Crowd Control in 4.2.

Basically, sheeping a mob in a pack will no longer pull the rest of the pack.

I completely agree with BBB that this is a good change. It makes CC much more user-friendly, as it separates the CC phase from the actual pull. Rather than painstakingly marking the entire pack, we will be able to CC first, see that it was done correctly, and then pull the remaining mobs.

The DPS can even CC ahead of time, confident that they won't be pulling before the tank is ready.

As well, it will make tanking easier. The CC'd mobs will stay where they started, while the remaining mobs will be pulled to the tank. This makes it a lot easier for the tank to use AoE abilities without breaking Crowd Control. Essentially, we get some of the Wrath-style AoE capability, while still using Crowd Control.

All in all, this will be a good change for the game.


  1. Hmm what about fear? And the glyphed fear?

  2. I understand the change, but I can't help but feel like it's a dumbing down of the game. I was happy when I read that CC would be coming back in Cata. I remember the days with my mage, when we had to peel off a CC target to safely poly in an out of the way location. It was a skill that couldn't be measured in damage meters.

    It required players to be aware of what was around them, something which is a "next level" skill.

  3. I'm in 2 minds about this change
    On the one hand, I feel it's dumbing down (I play a mage, so this will affect me directly) and therefore a bad change

    On the other hand, my guild is currently EXTREMELY slow at some trash pulls (in BoT particularly) because we spend so much time marking and assigning CC, and there's the inevitable slow person on each pull meaning a should-have-been-CCd mob ends up hitting a healer !
    From that point of view, it's a good change for me

    I can't decide....

  4. Another way to play with total strangers without any communication.

    MMMORPG - Massive muted multiplayer RPG

  5. Yeah, I agree it's a good change.

    Now, all they need to do is get rid of the ridiculous threat mechanic. I'm sure they could make it so the mobs just go directly to the tank, no matter what anyone else does.

  6. I put this same comment on BBB's page...

    I don't like the change.

    Back in the Karazhan days, we had misdirect pulls, line of sight pulls, chain trapping, kiting. That was the pinnacle of fun, in my opinion. If my class has all these abilities, I'd like to use them. Ever since then, the game has been stepping further and further away from that playstyle. People call it "dumbing down" and that may be a bit strong, but it is making the game action slower and less complicated in the name of convenience. I think much of this is driven by the LFD system and the necessity of making the game puggable.

    The sheep pull still required an ounce of coordination. When that sheep goes off, those mobs are going to run at the mage, so everyone else had better be ready to do their job. I enjoy that small sense of urgency that the pull brings.

    On another note - this change just seems silly. Imagine a group of evil wizards in Chogall's employ standing around in the Bastion of Twilight talking about the latest issue of Night Elf Monthly. One of them turns into a sheep. Another one freezes in a giant block of ice. The rest of them... go about their conversation? Its ridiculous. You can argue about how many aspects of the game are ridiculous, but for whatever reason that one really pushes my buttons.

  7. Actually I see this as a way to get more people to tank not to save DPS from CC.

    Picking up adds from a pull is one thing I see new tanks struggle with. This might be a way for bliz to take some of the pressure off tanking.

  8. People can argue the "how does that dude not notice his buddy just got turned into a sheep?" all day long, but lets face it, there are so many ridiculous things that happen in this game do we really need to focus on CC? I mean where the hell can my Holy Paladin be storing 68 Flying/ground mounts? Have you seen a proto drake? its the size of an tank... and i have 5 of them stashed on my person somewhere and with a simple whistle....woooosshh there it is. If i cast holy shock on an undead enemy the dude burns.... if i cast it on a forsaken player... he's healed? Does that make sense? Just cause he has a diffrent name and serves a diffrent master my shit wouldnt burn his ass? no, of course it doesnt. The change was to give some leeway with trash pulls, call it dumbing down if you want, but someone is still gonna break the trap, someone will still AOE the sheep, its gonna happen, everyone knows this so why get all worked up over it?

  9. I have a feeling the entire reasoning behind this change is to make random LFD groups a little more succesful. Considering the fact that Blizz is really trying to make LFD more desireable, this is no surprise. And for someone like myself who does a lot of LFD and watches a lot of bad cc'ing happen, yay for this. It will also make the average tanks' life less stressful, perhaps making it more "fun" for them.

  10. @Hyperian: You don't carry mounts, you carry whistles. Holy healing on undead is cauterization.

  11. I'm not a fan of this, for the reasons already stated; granted, we're all playing a fantasy game, but the idea that a group of mobs is standing around and Joe says to Fred "wow, I wonder why Marge just turned into a sheep, and hey, where did that big ice cube around Norm come from? Oh well, let's just keep standing here obliviously!" just makes me sigh.

  12. I'm sure if I agree or disagree with "dumbing down" argument, but THIS I'm sure of: this new CC concept is... not... realistic.

    "Hey! Bob just turned into a sheep, and Larry seems to be in an unconscious stupor. What gives?"

    "Eh... perfectly normal behavior. Nevermind the heavily armed folks standing over yonder."

  13. Add me to the camp of players who isn't a fan of this impending change. I enjoy having to be careful with my traps and the strategy required to determine kill orders, priorities or what have you, and the responsibility it put on me. If I screwed up a trap pull I needed to own up to it etc. Now there really isn't any way to screw it up- my talent in performing CC well is no longer an asset.

    I agree that it will make the LFD random pugs a little more user friendly, but I think it's catering to the lowest common denominator, which may be necessary but isn't necessarily a good thing.

  14. I get where the "CC should take skill" crowd is coming from.

    But the truth is that as soon as it is possible, we stop using CC and start making the tank hold everything and the healer keep him up.

    I haven't seen CC used in a non-Troll heroic in a while. If no one uses CC, what's the point of it?

    This change makes CC easier to use, from both the point of view of the DPS and the point of view of the tank.

    Yes there's a little bit of a versimilitude issue, but 95% of the time the tank will pull within 10s of the CC going down. This seems reasonable to me.

    And that other 5% of the time, either something went wrong with the CC, or the healer was still drinking, or the tank wasn't paying attention, or any other of the stupid things that lead to an unnecessary wipe and recriminations.

  15. To anybody complaining about why Frank isn't going after you if Marge just got sheeped, how is this any different than today where you kill Marge 15 yards away from Frank and Frank also doesn't go after you?

    Battles make lots of noise, and if you want realism, they should all go after you (or run away!) once you kill someone nominally in their sight.

    Basically, if you're complaining about it not being realistic to sheep someone and the rest of their party just hangs out until you attack, you lost the battle decades ago as far as video games are concerned, not just WoW.

  16. As a tank I always mark a target to sheep ,then I Righteous Defense the mage So i see this change as stupid and boring :)

  17. This is just plain dumb. And arguing that one level of unreality (a mob's inability to look beyond their agro radius) excuses another (ignoring a polymorph on the bloke next to them) is irrelevant. That's like saying it wouldn't matter if all mobs were to suddently become neutral. The rules of engagement are, by definition, arbitrary, but I don't see how a crowd control ability has any less reason to agro a pack than a dot that doesn't tick for three seconds, or a debuff that does no damage.

  18. @Klepsacovic Hmm Good point, that must be one hell of a whistle ring... take that janitor! And how does one cauterize bones/dead flesh? Though the thought of causing a forsaken (most importantly my wifes undead warrior) burning agony does peak my interest

  19. Dumbing down? Yes.

    Good change? Most likely.

    Extremely significant change? Probably not.

    That is all.