I think Paladins should be able to be in the front lines beating on something. I'm full prot spec and have no real interest in healing. Why should I be forced to be in the back when I've been ret/prot since launch.
I will state that i do not have a pally but i have become a fan of your blog. Your question is an interesting one but it is one asked by all hybrid classes. Are shammies meant to DPS or heal? What about druids, they have 4 options (kitty DPS, moonkin DPS, Bear tanking and healing) and blizzard has not made one more viable then the other. I think the problem of hybrid classes is that one aspect will not be as amazing as the others, while i love to have a pally in the group i never expect them to out DPS an equally geared pure DPS class because that is not what they were made for. The same can be said for shamans. On the matter of holy pallies, I do not understand what is exactly wrong with them as I have been impressed with there healing on average. I honestly believe that blizzard never meant paladins to be the best DPS or the best healer but something that would help the entire raid with fantastic buffs and effects that no other class could bring. If that is not your style of play then maybe re-rolling a different class is not such a bad thing. Well my two cents, I am enjoying the blog and keep up the good work.
Like the poster 'abhinav' above, I'm a fan of the blog but don't have a WoW paladin (though I played a Diablo 2 pally all the way through). Frankly, at a design level, from-a-distance healing and a "bubble" are not really my idea of a paladin (but that's just an opinion, for free :-) ).
I do have a 61 drood and can kinda relate to the hybrid dilemma. In fact, I have a 70 warrior and 70 priest too; the warrior was arms/dps while levelling and is prot now (and kinda-mothballed), the priest is and has always been shadow/dps (and who will not shy from fear-shield "tanking" a Lieutenant in AV if necessary :-0 ) -- but I carry healer gear too...
Additionally, I've not raided but I've been heavy into PvP -- where I've seen many a pally.
So I truly wonder if "which role" is even a valid question in the sense that gear and talent spec, and endgame choices (raid or PvP) will define your role no matter which class you choose to play.
Realistically, a huge portion of the paladin population is Holy because paladins are great healers and kinda suspect tanks and DPSers in many cases. This means that a huge portion of the paladin population stands in the back (I usually stand about five yards in from the edge of my cleanse radius, so about 25 yards out.) Being close in is dumb, because you get hit with cleaves and other multi-target abilities and can't see what's going on as well, and paladins gain very little from standing in close most of the time. (That said, in fights where it's no more dangerous to stand closer than further away, you might as well stand closer, but I generally don't out of force of habit, and such fights are very rare.)
I don't know about most of you holy paladins, but in intense fights, I'm casting most of the time. It's far more important for me to conserve my mana by casting mana-efficient heals than it is for me to be able to take a few pathetic whacks with my hammer by using time efficient heals that are less mana efficient. That doesn't change the fact that standing 25 yards out and chain casting heals is not what most people think of when they think of paladins. (In most fantasy properties, the paladin class is roughly as competent in combat as the fighter class, trading perhaps some martial flexibility for a small amount of magical power. I do not want to see the WoW paladin go in that direction - I like playing a caster - but until there's a heavy reason for pallies to stand close - and actually melee, hopefully, not just be forced to stand in a vulnerable spot - most won't.
The question was asked. Essentially, the person said "Paladins are healing from ranged way back with the casters. Are there any plans for a way to move the paladins forward into melee?"
What the answer boiled down to was prety much "If you want to melee...you can just respec."
Overall, I got a distinct feeling that the people giving the presentations didnt know much at all about the Paladin class. Plenty about Rogues and Priests. Plenty too about warriors. Very unrealistic understanding of Paladins on pretty much every angle.
The fact that the vast majority of the crowd Booed when Paladins were brought up was rather disheartening as well.
Someone else asked about comparative main tanking viability, to which the response was "Paladin AOE tanking is fine." I found that statement very worrying in the context.
Apparently Prot is getting a buff in hit points to "bring them in line with warriors and bears".
Both! My guild leader just offtanked in Kara the other night when all other Warriors cept our Main Tank were not on.
He's 41/20/0 with a measely 393 DEF and 10k HP raid buffed. Offtanked Attumen, offtanked Moroes, offtanked ghost performers before Opera, AE tanked ghost dancers and those annoying mana wyrms right before Curator.
Swapped a few pieces, 1300+ healing and 30+ spell crit, he healed through Maiden, Opera, Curator.
If you're standing out there with the Mages and Hunters as a Pally, you're not judging seals and are slow to pick up things that like to kill cloth and leather. So move in and out of melee and ranged like a boxer, IMO.
Agree it would be nice if they could answer that for themselfs. Or if they just "fix" class issues with hero classes.
ReplyDeleteWhat happens if they answer with "Both"?
ReplyDeleteThats a question I would love answered. If they say "both" then they should fix the talent trees. Or at least two of three. I could live with that.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThat would be nice of blizzard to answer that questions but they wont.
ReplyDeleteI would have to say paladins should stay in the back with the priest and healers since paladins are pigeon hole as a healer.
You should disable anonymous posting Coriel. Keep the trolls on the official WoW forums.
ReplyDeleteI think Paladins should be able to be in the front lines beating on something. I'm full prot spec and have no real interest in healing. Why should I be forced to be in the back when I've been ret/prot since launch.
ReplyDelete"or in the back with the priests and mages?"
ReplyDeleteI don't know about your priests, but if it's safe to be in melee I'm up there whacking mobs with my staff!
Um... not to be taken the wrong way, of course...
agreed. the question should be answered, and the anon should be flogged.
ReplyDeletemy pally is in mothballs until blizz fixes something.
Sadly, Warhammer is looking like the new home for me and my desire to be a front line Paladin.
ReplyDeleteI will state that i do not have a pally but i have become a fan of your blog. Your question is an interesting one but it is one asked by all hybrid classes. Are shammies meant to DPS or heal? What about druids, they have 4 options (kitty DPS, moonkin DPS, Bear tanking and healing) and blizzard has not made one more viable then the other. I think the problem of hybrid classes is that one aspect will not be as amazing as the others, while i love to have a pally in the group i never expect them to out DPS an equally geared pure DPS class because that is not what they were made for. The same can be said for shamans. On the matter of holy pallies, I do not understand what is exactly wrong with them as I have been impressed with there healing on average. I honestly believe that blizzard never meant paladins to be the best DPS or the best healer but something that would help the entire raid with fantastic buffs and effects that no other class could bring. If that is not your style of play then maybe re-rolling a different class is not such a bad thing. Well my two cents, I am enjoying the blog and keep up the good work.
ReplyDeleteLike the poster 'abhinav' above, I'm a fan of the blog but don't have a WoW paladin (though I played a Diablo 2 pally all the way through). Frankly, at a design level, from-a-distance healing and a "bubble" are not really my idea of a paladin (but that's just an opinion, for free :-) ).
ReplyDeleteI do have a 61 drood and can kinda relate to the hybrid dilemma. In fact, I have a 70 warrior and 70 priest too; the warrior was arms/dps while levelling and is prot now (and kinda-mothballed), the priest is and has always been shadow/dps (and who will not shy from fear-shield "tanking" a Lieutenant in AV if necessary :-0 ) -- but I carry healer gear too...
Additionally, I've not raided but I've been heavy into PvP -- where I've seen many a pally.
So I truly wonder if "which role" is even a valid question in the sense that gear and talent spec, and endgame choices (raid or PvP) will define your role no matter which class you choose to play.
Hybrid classes are able to do different tasks. Wouldn't where you belong depend on your spec?
ReplyDeleteRealistically, a huge portion of the paladin population is Holy because paladins are great healers and kinda suspect tanks and DPSers in many cases. This means that a huge portion of the paladin population stands in the back (I usually stand about five yards in from the edge of my cleanse radius, so about 25 yards out.) Being close in is dumb, because you get hit with cleaves and other multi-target abilities and can't see what's going on as well, and paladins gain very little from standing in close most of the time. (That said, in fights where it's no more dangerous to stand closer than further away, you might as well stand closer, but I generally don't out of force of habit, and such fights are very rare.)
ReplyDeleteI don't know about most of you holy paladins, but in intense fights, I'm casting most of the time. It's far more important for me to conserve my mana by casting mana-efficient heals than it is for me to be able to take a few pathetic whacks with my hammer by using time efficient heals that are less mana efficient. That doesn't change the fact that standing 25 yards out and chain casting heals is not what most people think of when they think of paladins. (In most fantasy properties, the paladin class is roughly as competent in combat as the fighter class, trading perhaps some martial flexibility for a small amount of magical power. I do not want to see the WoW paladin go in that direction - I like playing a caster - but until there's a heavy reason for pallies to stand close - and actually melee, hopefully, not just be forced to stand in a vulnerable spot - most won't.
The question was asked.
ReplyDeleteEssentially, the person said "Paladins are healing from ranged way back with the casters. Are there any plans for a way to move the paladins forward into melee?"
What the answer boiled down to was prety much "If you want to melee...you can just respec."
Overall, I got a distinct feeling that the people giving the presentations didnt know much at all about the Paladin class. Plenty about Rogues and Priests. Plenty too about warriors.
Very unrealistic understanding of Paladins on pretty much every angle.
The fact that the vast majority of the crowd Booed when Paladins were brought up was rather disheartening as well.
Someone else asked about comparative main tanking viability, to which the response was "Paladin AOE tanking is fine."
I found that statement very worrying in the context.
Apparently Prot is getting a buff in hit points to "bring them in line with warriors and bears".
Both! My guild leader just offtanked in Kara the other night when all other Warriors cept our Main Tank were not on.
ReplyDeleteHe's 41/20/0 with a measely 393 DEF and 10k HP raid buffed. Offtanked Attumen, offtanked Moroes, offtanked ghost performers before Opera, AE tanked ghost dancers and those annoying mana wyrms right before Curator.
Swapped a few pieces, 1300+ healing and 30+ spell crit, he healed through Maiden, Opera, Curator.
If you're standing out there with the Mages and Hunters as a Pally, you're not judging seals and are slow to pick up things that like to kill cloth and leather. So move in and out of melee and ranged like a boxer, IMO.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteI think that question does more to pigeon hole the class than any bias from the WoW community.
ReplyDeleteBlizzard has obviously given us talent trees that enhance our healing, tanking, or dps abilities, with varying degrees of effectiveness.
If you're stuck at the back of the raid healing, it's because that's how you've choosen how to spec and the guild you've choosen to join.
robert, consider reposting your comment without the insult.
ReplyDeleteI think Blizzard would say Both.
ReplyDeleteThen they would probably followup that saying, where you are in zone depends on your spec.
Still you won't get a straight answer.