Wednesday, August 16, 2006

Options for Raid Guilds

A lot of existing raid guilds are worried because the new raid cap means that they will have to change their structure to meet the new requirements. Here is a listing of the options as I see them.

1. Stop recruiting and let attrition reduce the guild size.

All guilds suffer attrition. People leave for real life or other options. During the levelling from 60-70, you'll probably have some natural attrition, decreasing the numbers in the guild. This might leave you at the proper size, and it might not. If it doesn't, you'll have to use one of the other options

2. Cut the weakest people in the guild.

Identify your weakest players and cut them. This gets you down to the required size, and preserves the strongest part of your guild. However, it's painful to have to leave your friends. As well, this decision is ruthless and may cause a lot of drama.

3. Recruit more and run two raids.

If you recruit a few more people, you will have enough to run two raids. However, running two raids is a lot of administrative work. Splitting people up into an "A" Team and a "B" Team may also cause bad feelings, as people on the "B" Team will feel slighted.

This might be interesting in a winged dungeon, though. Team A could work on one wing, and Team B could work on another wing. The two raids could swap strategies as they defeat bosses, making it easier for the other team.

4. Introduce rotations.

Instead of each person raiding 5 nights a week, each person raids 4 nights, allowing everyone to raid, though at a lesser rate than previous. The advantage is that everyone remains together. Some people may dislike sitting out, though. Progression will also be much slower, as it will take longer to gear everyone up and for everyone to learn the encounters.

5. Set up an Guild Arena PvP team.

Take 4-10 people who like PvP and set them up as an Arena team. While the rest of the guild raids, the Arena team goes out and PvPs. Then when a PvP season ends, the Arena team takes their new toys and is folded back into the raiding team, and a new PvP team is set up.

Advantage is that the people who are not raiding are doing their own thing. They are upholding the guild name and reputation on the battlefield. As well, it provides a nice opportunity for people to experience PvP as a solid team. It gives people an opportunity to mix things up. Hardcore raid for a while, then hardcore PvP. There may be a hiccup in guild quality at the end of each season as people come back to the raiding group, as you have to gear and train the PvP'ers.

Personally, I think I would go with a mixture of attrition and PvP Arena teams. I think it would be the easiest, depending on the length of a PvP season. It gives people an opportunity to try different things and get different gear. Also, it'll give your raiders a chance to go off-spec, and indulge their inner Shadow Priest/Feral Druid/etc. to their heart's content.

As well, I am quite partial to the notion of having a team specifically carry the guild banner in PvP. A good guild has to maintain a certain reputation after all.

Thoughts? Any other ideas on what a raiding guild should do?


  1. I come from the other end of this - I'm not in a raiding guild and I look at 25-mans as a (slightly harder) PUG-able instance I can hope to attend. :)

    Honestly I'm kinda confused, how is it a problem? Currently I would think every raiding guild that runs 40 mans has the people power to run two 25 mans, or a 20 and a 25. I might be wrong but I would think there are rather few guilds that have each and every person above/beyond needing to go back to the 20 mans.

    There is a guild on my server that I like to run with, In For Blood. They have over 450 people, and they run everything rather casually. Last week, they invited me to an MC run. At the same time they had ZG and AQ20 runs. Instead of more "law and order" about scheduling raids, a larger raiding guild is more free of those rules. --At least, from an outsiders perspective, it seems so.

  2. I think the best bet is for larger guilds to keep running BWL, AQ40 and Naxx with reduced dkp values. The loot should still be decent until everyone is level 70 and it should also get progressively easier as people level up.

    The Arena guild team is a nice idea also. I hope they allow specific arena team tabards or flags to be made.

  3. r. muffin, the hardcore top tier raiding guilds tend to run with the minimum number of people needed. Often less than 60. They do this so that the same people are attending all the raids, learning the strats, and gearing up.

    The more people in your guild, the slower progression will be, because more people have be geared and trained.

  4. Arena?? Have I missed something? I have been in a casual raid guild for a little over a month and I have never heard of an arena. Are you referring to the arena that is in STV?

  5. Lol. In the expansion, you can form "Arena" teams (2v2 to 5v5), with substitutes. Teams play other teams and are ranked on a ladder, like in the chess system. After a few months, the season ends, and the ladder is reset.

    The best PvP rewards will be found in this system.

  6. From what they discribed, it's going to be a while before those instances are puggable. And then they will probley be more like ZG puggable. Kill a few bosses but don't even look at Hakkar.

    And I wouldn't say that most hardcore guilds run with only sixty 60's...we have 80 or so who are regular raiders and a few more who like to go to MC sometimes. Not all of them are at the same place, and not all of them are ready for AQ40. That winnows it down to 50 or so.

    It leaves us in a position where if someone needs/wants to miss a raid they can without creating problems or resentment. And if we have too many then we just rotate. For MC we tend to limit it to the people with less raiding experance, with enough of the "hardcore" raiders as needed as filler or teaching cadre.

    It's not a perfect system but it works for us pretty well.

  7. As far as attrition goes, there is probably a bright side that most GMs won't say in public: every guildmaster and officer has a list of people they'd love to kick but can't due to needing them to fill raids. Now they get their chance. Obviously not everyone is friends, there are plenty of complainers, or selfish, loot-obsessed whiners out there, or others that cause problems.

    I just kicked someone last week. I felt bad about it, esp. since it's not like WoW is "important". But when we're supposed to be having fun it's a drag to have a selfish person who doesn't play well with others.

    People that aren't good at playing can be annoying but I'd take one over someone I don't like being around. But that's me. Either way, attrition is probably good for large guilds.

  8. Thanks for clearing that up for me gsh! The arena sounds like a great alternative to BG's and is something I will be looking forward to. please excuse the noobness. lol

  9. Something that Yunk said got me thinking. If every server has X amount of people that are selfish loot whores posing as a guildie. I wonder if a guild that strictly recruited loot whores would work out. Everyone could just roll need on whatever item they wanted regardless of if it was neeeded, and then let the game sort everything else out. They could even name their guild the Loot Whores.

  10. Loot whoring works best when they get to prey on the weak - that is, when no one else will compete. there would be no guild-only runs, because their work is more profitable elsewhere. So the guild name would kinda hurt their chances.

    Now, form an out-of-game guild called "Loot Whores": and you have the makings of the "punk'd" show from a few years ago. :)

    And if karma has a play, a whole bunch of accounts get banned at once :)

  11. The problem I can forsee with running two raid teams at once is with raidID. You would be locked out of your own guild runs, and if someone from Team A wanted to help teach Team B how to get past a rough spot they will have to miss that week in their own instance to do it.

  12. A good read here. I hope you don't mind but I hijacked your article to spark thoughts of my own.

    Again, thanks for the read.