Wednesday, October 15, 2008

3.0.2 Paladin Builds

Here are the builds I'm thinking about for Patch 3.0.2 (PvE mainly):

Holy - 51/5/5

You don't have enough points to get Conviction in Ret, and Ret paladins won't have enough points to get Kings and all their damage talents. So for now, it's probably easiest if Holy gets Kings.

Protection - 0/55/6

Gets all of the defensive talents, and a 9s Judgement to make Prot rotations smooth.

Retribution - 0/5/56

Most of the damage talents, plus a few essential utility talents. Improved Retribution Aura versus a couple more points in Righteous Vengeance is a toss-up, but I'll give the tanks a bit more threat.

Note that in Retribution, you want 8s Judgements. All the simulations I've done show it as being an increase in damage. Because Divine Storm is on a 10s cooldown, Retribution doesn't have a smooth rotation, and your ability cooldowns will clash every so often. However, Protection does have a perfect rotation with 9s Judgements, so Prot doesn't need to spend the extra talent point.


  1. For Protection, why not Guarded by the Light? 6% spell damage reduction and 30% mana cost reduction on two (at 70) of our main spells seems like a good choice.

  2. Hmm. I don't know why I didn't take that. I think I may have removed the points when I was trying to get Seals of the Pure, but that didn't really work well. I'm not sure you'll really need the cost reduction. Maybe drop two points from Reckoning and take Guarded by the Light.

  3. Yeah, the way I see it, Reckoning is a nice-to-have. Although, it remains to be seen how much it is necessary for generating threat with the way things have changed.

    Hmm, although the problem seems to be that you need three points at or before Reckoning's tier to go further. So you can only take one point out of Reckoning to put into Guarded by the Light.

  4. Every paladin should spec Ret while it is still silly OP. I doubt Ret will stay in it's current form for long. Thanks to new Ret talents I'm doing silly burst damage and my heals hit just as big as they did prior to 3.0 when I was a holy build with 1k+ heals. Retarded OP, forget the other specs go Ret while it lasts.

  5. What is your preferred rotation for Ret?

  6. yes im also interested to know what your preferred ret rotation was. i think i've been doing judgement, DS, CS and consecrate if i need to or just repeat.

  7. There is no rotation for Ret. Generally, just hit abilities as they come off cooldown. If you have a choice of abilities, use the following priority:

    Judgement > Crusader Strike > Divine Storm. Throw in Consecrates/Exorcisms when the main three are on cooldown.

    Sub-35% is similar, only the priority is:

    Judgement > Hammer of Wrath > Crusader Strike, Divine Storm.

    Strictly following the priority list isn't that important. All the potential priorities are very close in damage potential.

  8. I have a pally sitting at 60, ready to lvl up to 70 now that 3.0.2 is live. Would your ret spec change much for solo leveling doing quests? Less focus on grouping...


  9. The two different rotations typically used in Ret Raiding for 3.0 is a First Come First Serve System using one of two different priority modes:

    FCFS, Priority DPS: When there is a conflict choose the highest DPS ability first.

    FCFS, Priority Damage per Cast: On a conflict choose the ability with the highest damage per cast (i.e. DS get priority over CS).

    Mana issues will also obviously cause Judgement to be high on the priority list is mana starved situations. As Rohan says, once you reach <35% HoW enters the equation, because it rocks.

  10. Because of the slightly longer cooldown i like the use of DS first. then after a Consecrate, stun CS, Judgement, DS should be just about ready to use again. I threw stun in there because some of our abilities and new glyphs give us bonus damage on stunned

  11. I used a different spec for my Prot choices:

    I picked up Blessing of Kings because my Holy Pally dropped it.

    I skipped Shield of the Templar, because we're not going to get Shield of Righteousness until level 75.

    The devs have mentioned that they may add some more damage reduction to Shield of the Templar, to make it more attractive. I can re-evaluate it if that happens.

  12. I have a pally sitting at 60, ready to lvl up to 70 now that 3.0.2 is live. Would your ret spec change much for solo leveling doing quests? Less focus on grouping...

    I'd probably drop points from Divine Strength, Art of War, Righteous Vengeance, Improved Retribution Aura and Pursuit of Justice. Just get the full damage increasing talents and Divine Storm.

    You could also drop points from Fanaticism, but this is a very bad idea if you want to do any grouping at all.

  13. I'll admit that for my Prot Pally I went with this set-up:

    - Polecat

  14. Here's what I'm going with:

    I'd rather put the 5 points in Kings into Reckoning, but I need to do a little more research into what my Expertise would need to be. We'll be able to get up to 16 Expertise with both talents and the Glyph of SoV, but I'm not sure yet what a boss' chance to parry is. I might put 5 of my 71~80 points into Reckoning, but I'm thinking of taking Heart of the Crusader, Improved Judgements, and Seals of the Pure with them.

    I also decided to drop Ardent Defender because while I think it's pretty neat, I'm not really sure the benefit is all that useful overall. I'd rather put those 5 points into Benediction, since that's a 10% cost reduction on -everything- Prot uses.

  15. I went a slightly different path, forgoing Kings because we always run with prot pallies in raids, and going instead for Heart of the Crusader for a little more raid utility.

    On a side note, we threw together a quick raid from the guild last night and jumped into kara for a laugh. It was unbelievable. We chain pulled up to Aran in around 35 minutes. We still had ushers and a skele when we pulled Moroes. No one could go OOM, HL crits were landing for around 11-12k, with the HL glyph I was raid healing like a shammy. Haste from judgements is just delicious. It's a whole new game :)

    I was really worried about the mechanics of pally healing in the patch, but it's a lot more fun than it was before, in fact it's damn fun! I'm definitely staying holy.

  16. So assuming a 0/55/6 build, what should the rotation be?

    I will miss Seal of the Crusader...

  17. My prot build for end game.

    Why improved HoJ? Cause its an interrupt now, and when needed i would rather be able to interrupt 2 times a min then just one. And everything else is pretty self explanatory. Of course at 80 I'll have the reduced judgment time and the 5 in holy, but for now, with the retarded amount of threat i have already, this seems to be the cats pajamas.

  18. Ahh crap i just noticed i put the into benediction instead of deflection, make a mental not of that on the previous post

  19. I'm curious why noone is grabbing Vindication. That's a 20% reduction in all stats. That's huge in PVP and it appears to be proccing in PVE as well.

  20. Does Vindication work on bosses?

  21. Vindication doesn't work on bosses or even many outdoor elites. It's a decent PvP talent, I think.

    But for PvE, the basic rule is if the fight is even slightly challenging, Vindication will not work.

  22. Definitely doesn't work on bosses. But, I'm on a PVP server - to me it's an awfully nifty debuff that can help end a fight quickly if the target can't manage to dispel.

  23. Vindication was good before 3.0.2 even if it doesn't work on bosses since it was considered another chance to proc JoL or JoW. But now that they're basically guaranteed procs on timers, Vindication isn't really as useful for anything but PvP.

  24. Well, the nerf is here. Forget that Ret build.

    Go pound on something solo that has high armour. Watch it laugh at you.

  25. Vindication annoys me PvE,
    SCT just spams "Immune" every time you swing lol.

    What was your prot rotation?

    Im considering dropping Reckoning since it procs upon you being hit(wasn't this going to be block too?) Since my paladin is Unhittable (with HS) now this is kinda pointless.

  26. As I recall, a block is considered a hit. So Reckoning should proc off blocks. It's the avoidance -- parry, miss & dodge -- that reduced the usefulness of Reckoning.

  27. This is what I originally thought, but if you dont take damage due to blocking is that classed as a hit?

    I was almost sure that the text on the PTR for reckoning "stated being hit by or blocking a damaging attack".

    I shall definitly test it out this weekend and come back with a definitive answer I guess ^^

  28. I don't play a pally (bear and spriest, actually) but both holy palys in my 10-man-raid-focus guild went 37/9/15.

    Like I said, I don't play a pally, but the second one to change to that spec won't shut up about how much he loves it.

  29. Personally, I specced the second point into improved judgement for prot. I may or may not respec back to a 9 second cooldown once I hit 75, but until then, I find it's really hard to maintain a 969696 rotation when half of your sixes are missing. So instead I've been doing more of a priority cast system, with top priority depending on the situation (Shield for max mitigation, hammer for single/small groups, consecration for big groups).

    Even at 80, though, I may keep that second point in there, since on mitigation-sensitive fights, you're probably going to want to ensure 100% holy shield uptime, in which case it would be preferable to have a sustainable 8 second rotation, using hammer and shield as 8 second cooldowns (1.5*5 = 7.5 seconds out of every 8, so it's not like you'd be standing around half of the time like we used to pre-3.0.2).

    Given what the devs keep saying about not wanting threat to be such a big deal any more, I think the perfect threat rotation is going to be more of an e-peen stroking ability than a raiding requirement. Which is not to say I won't practice using it (and have a macro set up for it); after all, it's also a maximized DPS rotation, and tanks do some serious DPS now, too, for those hard enrage timers.