Friday, January 01, 2010

PuG Tales

Actually, I don't really have a whole lot to say about grouping through the Dungeon Finder. It's pretty much been, in the words of Scott Jennings, "Bam! Loot! Dog!"

In any case, I'm sort of surprised at seeing some of the negative stories about Dungeon Finder groups going around. Pretty much all of mine--knock on wood--have been successful. No comments about low DPS, no snarkiness or elitism, just clean and competent groups.

This includes heroics run on Coriel and Valarin, as well as low level dungeons run on a couple alts. Maybe they've been somewhat quiet, but everyone says "Hi" at the start and "Thank you" at the end, and really, what more can you ask for?

There have really only been two negative happenings. In one Culling of Stratholme, two DPS ran ahead and died, so the tank ditched us in the middle of the waves. I ressed them, the DK switched to tanking gear, and we carried on until we got a new tank from the Dungeon Finder. We even made the Drake Timer (albeit just barely, with literally seconds to spare).

The only other place that regularly has problems is Gnomeregan. And that's mostly because it's Gnomeregan. Low-level, long, a confusing layout, with somewhat rapid respawns: it's a recipe for unsuccessful runs.

Even Oculus isn't that bad. Speaking of Oculus, I've never found it difficult, but I do find it a bit annoying. It's very start-and-stop. You get on drake, fly a few feet, and get off the drake. Rinse and repeat again and again. I wonder if it would have been a better instance if it had been more like Malygos. If you spent the first half running around, and then the last half entirely on dragonback, rather than switching all the time.

Still though, the Dungeon Finder has been very successful and a lot of fun for me so far.


  1. I feel the need to post a comment about your entry. At the beginning, I found the new LFG really good. All the people I've pug with were all friendly, etc. My main is my pally (holy/prot) so it's easy to get groups. However, my hunter is just dps and takes a while. I guess I tend to find the bad random groups on my hunter. Not all are bad but there are a quite a few. I don't mean low dps, etc. as you pointed out. I'm talking about some of the rudeness. What's with all of the "huntard" jokes? One blames me for low dps and posted his recount. If he read carefully, I was at the top (both total damage and dps). Another player also posted his and was confused what the tank said. I've also had one tank blame the healer (not I as I'm on my hunter) for being bad (with some colorful language) and left group after 2nd or 3rd wave in heroic VH. Healer did nothing other than heal and skinned. Tank wanted to skin or something but lost the skin (both trying to skin?) and healer got an artic fur. I don't know. As a result, a couple die and then people left as well. A wasted 20 minute of queuing and a couple of waves, I had to requeue for another random.

    I think I'll just stick to "Hi" and "Thank you all" on my hunter and just stay quiet to avoid any unnecessary "huntard" jokes, etc.

  2. My experience with the new LFG system and players you get grouped with has been pretty mixed. While the heroic dungeon runs seems to go more or less smooth (apart from obligatory rudeness, dps meter spam, curious decisions regarding loot and sometimes 1k DPS players), low-level dungeon runs tend to be horrible. I created one character especially to experience these instances (again) and ... oh boy ... I've been grouped with abolutely horrible players. No-one was using crowd-control or LoS, runers were left to run away, DPS people constanty over-aggroed the tank, mages pulling with pyroblast, players rolling Need on everything et cetera. I understand some of these players might have been unexperienced and still learning, but looking at toons with three heirloom pieces failing at basics have been plain sad.

    We can find a group via the new LFG system much faster ... but unfortunately, we can find bad or rude players now much faster too.

  3. Somehow, after three weeks, I've managed to PuG with....8 people. My experiences have been fine, but I'm seeing more and more horror stories popping up. My former GM got vote-kicked on his druid because someone 'didn't like the way he healed'. He was a little rusty, but nobody died. Maybe there was more to the story, but I have my doubts, this is a good guy and a good healer.

    @leskopet -- anytime I've run a lower dungeon it's chaos. Even when you're in there with experienced people on alts. I'm not sure what it is, it's like everyone forgets 'the rules' and just goes in there willy-nilly. It seems like you don't start seeing order and decent play out of people until Sunken Temple, maybe Zul'Farak at the earliest if you're lucky.

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  5. I usually run pugs a lot as a tank, even before the new system came out. The annoying thing I've started to notice is that everyone is so overgeared for the dungeon that they want to go through them at blistering speeds. And if I don't pull fast enough for them, the dps will usually pull anyway without waiting.

    Most of the time I can pull it off them easily enough, or if its a rogue or hunter pulling they get stuck on me anyway through misdirection and such, but I hate the idea that the flow of pulls is being taken out of the hands of the tank, especially since now I have no way of planning which mobs get Avenger's shielded, judged, etc to get aggro on all of them.

    If any DPS pulls a mob before the tank then that DPS should expect to be killed by that mob, end of story. However since everyone is so overgeared it doesn't happen. (Even in the times when I leave the mobs attacking them they usually survive, and then go ahead to pull the next mob. :P)

  6. Like you its been interesting listening to a lot of negative comments about the new dungeon finder, which is why I never used it till a couple of weeks ago. Since then, not a single bad pug, sure some people are a little undergeared (no problem consider Im atill using i200/i219 gear lol) everyones on a Hi/thank you buzz and in the 2 heroic runs Ive done both time we had an awesome tank or heals with the gear I only dream of having lol.

    Ive actually used the new finder more on my mage alt (lvl25) than on my Main pally, just cause the lower dungeons are quite quick to get groups together and its fun doing instances with new faces.

    so yea all in all, a good experience with the new lfg . . . so far lol.

    Also check me out in Oceanic server/Dreadmaul/Horde if you are ever in the facinity!

  7. Even instant mounting these stupid drakes would make it more fun...

  8. I've had mostly positive experiences, and I've been running a lot of random groups on a number of alts. Although for the most part I'm doing the type of quick "Hi/thanks for group" runs where no one talks, which is kind of disappointing. I've had a few great runs where people were being more social and friendly though, which was something I always enjoyed about pugging back in the day.

    The runs where I go as tank or healer almost always do well, and although I avoided taking some of my DPS alts at first for fear of looking bad on the meters, I haven't really had anyone yell at me (and actually I'm starting to lead on some runs).

    Bad runs have included getting booted on my healer (without comment, when I was completely not at fault), people leaving Occulus upon zoning in (it's not that bad anymore you big babies), and only a few runs where a tank or healer got all superior about something or other and left.

    Yesterday in VH our tank just left the group without saying anything at all after the 2nd boss died (before he was looted even). The group was doing awesome too, so we were confused. Luckily we got a new tank in real fast and they were quick to react to the situation, and we finished successfully.

  9. He was probably after the achievement of one of the two bosses?

  10. On my protection Paladin main / Death Knight alt (I usually pug prot), it's more and more frequently that I get the "What Did I Bring You Guys Here For" achievement. That achievement is: #1 damage taken, #1 DPS, #1 Damage Deal.

    Queuing on my Arcane usually takes 10-15 minutes on my Battle Group, and I usually spend that time doing my dailies.

  11. High end dungeons mostly have been fine for me. Low end dungeons have been a great improvement over the old days, which was "Cannot find any group ever." But I'm finding that low level pugs have about a 50/50 chance to contain at least one or more extremely stupid or rude people.

    Mostly, they're incredibly impatient. As an experienced tank AND healer, while tanking I try to pull a few mobs at a time -- a regular clip, but never so many that there's a strong chance of a wipe. However, there are often DPS members who launch right in, saying "Pull the whole room and let me AOE!" or "Let's go let's go!" If the tank is moving too slowly, they'll just take the initiative and pull on their own.

    This can have severe negative consequences, because I think that noob DPS simply do not understand the very real limits that even a competent group has. Sure, it can look like everything is rolling along fine and the healer doesn't even need to drink very often. But deliberately picking a giant pull can spell disaster if a few adds show up, and it can get crazy if the mobs run away at low health. And sometimes they (as well as noob tanks) even do it while the healer is trying to drink.

    I've had to strictly enforce a personal policy when I'm healing: If you are not the tank, and you pull without the tank's permission, I give you fair warning. Then I do not heal you, and I do not res you when you die. Let the DPS ragequit when they have to walk; they are easy to replace. And if I am tanking with a competent healer, I advise him to do the same.

  12. I should add that I don't have a problem with genuine noobs -- people who are new to the game and looking for guidance are a great addition to any group. As long as you invest a few minutes to explain how to play their role, and they are willing to listen, they can be an excellent team player after a few pulls. It's only people who don't know how to play on a team AND arrogantly assume they know what they're doing, who are a threat to everyone.