Sunday, November 02, 2008

Protection 11-Point Idea


Glorious Charge
Requires 10 points in Protection Talents
5% of base mana
8 - 25 yd range
30s cooldown
Causes you to charge an enemy. All party or raid members within 45 yards become immune to Fear effects for 10* seconds.

Glyph of Glorious Charge
Minor Glyph
You may use Glorious Charge while mounted on a Paladin Warhorse or Charger. If you do, the target is stunned for 2 seconds. After the charge, you dismount and the battle is finished on foot.

I'm pretty sure everyone can see what I'm going for. Lots of paladin flavour, a gap closer, but no real stun/damage like the warrior or druid variant (unless you're mounted, and really, getting hit with a mounted charge is probably worth a small stun). Also, this would require lots of gold particle effects for the charge blur.

The Fear immunity might be funny. Imagine a raid fight like Nightbane where a Holy paladin charges in right before the boss casts the Fear.

* 10 seconds might be a little high. But you get the idea. The Paladin is inspiring her comrades by charging in, and the buff to friends, rather than a debuff to the enemy, reflects that. Also, anti-fear is decent in that it prevents an immediate Fear from completely negating the Charge.

24 comments:

Gryphonheart said...

Warning: slight WotLK spoilers ahead!

If you've seen the final Death Knight quest, you'll notice that Tirion Fordring does an awesome leap to engage his opponent in combat (very similar to the Druid's Feral Charge ability while in Cat form). Personally, I think we should get something like that, rather than a charge. It could be called "Leap of Faith".

Just my 2c regarding the aesthetics. =)

Rohan said...

But then I don't get to charge on my horse!

Heh, a mounted charge was concept I started with, then I decided it might be too niche, and so made it a glyph.

macawber said...

I'd like it a lot more without the minimum range. That way it could be used as a straight fear break while tanking. Apart from that, it's a clever idea for something that would appeal to both ret PVPers and prot PVEers.

Basil said...

An awesome idea. Really.

It fits with paladin lore, and it's damn cool, too. Even if it is kinda like the warrior version, the ability to use it while mounted is just cool.

Anonymous said...

It would almost be a requirement for ret to pick this talent up. That's not necessarily a bad thing. I agree with the comment about it having no min range. It would help with the recent change to AV, having it cause 2 min forbearance. Instead of relying on bubble to get out of fear, causing the inability to use AV, you could prevent fear by using leap of faith.

Oh right, leap of faith is a way better name.
I'd like to see how the move would pan out.

Anonymous said...

Edit: AW, not AV

Suicidal Zebra said...

TBH, there's plenty of room in Retribution for a new PvP Talent, it doesn't have to be in Prot. I don't see Prot getting an Intercept as an 11pt talent (Warriors would scream bloody murder) and the talent itself is probably a little powerful for PvP anyway. Depending on PvE encounters though it may turn out to be necessary.

I'd like to see strong, new PvP talents in Holy @ 11pts (make Aura Mastery baseline fore Pete's sake) and somewhere in Ret. The former provides an alternate option to the 30sec HoJ from Prot, and the latter would server to clean up the masses of +%damage/crit talents in that tree.

Anonymous said...

brilliant! you should post this on the paladin forums/suggestion forums. blizz really needs to consider this.

andrew said...

I think the mounted charge should be a base ability for all paladins. I like the idea of a paladin making a leap through the air to hit his/her target. The paladin should land at his or her target at blind anyone in 5 yards (melee range) for 2 seconds with a brilliant flash of holy light.

Anyone else think that consecration shoudl also heal? shamans want to fight near their totems. paldins should want to fight on their sacred earth.

Poolstick said...

Hey, why don't just just turn pallies into OP warriors that can heal? This talent is ridiculous, as if blizzard didn't meld all the classes enough already. We need something new and innovative, not the same old skills for different classes.

It is the same as pallies who want the same taunt as warriors. If pallies got something like this, I would seriously just go reroll a pally tank, seeing as they have almost every good thing a warrior has PLUS AoE threat through the roof. I'm tired of people just wanting everything, and giving up nothing. That is how a class becomes OP.

Poolstick said...

And to add: In your post titled "What went wrong," you claim that pallies should be good a burst be very immobile, and when they catch you to you, they will burst you down. This skill completely contradicts the direction you think pallies should go in.

andrew said...

well then we need another option. rogues have more defensive abilites then we pallies do. they have a counter for every thing.

we need hand of spell warding(immune to all spell dmg but can't cast any magic in it but can do physical dmg out and into it)

a 30 yard ranged instant cast that is a unique counter to death knights(a runic power or rune burn)

something similar to the spell breaker debuff that illidari elves can do.

if we can't absolutely crush anyone stupid enough to get in our melee range then we need defensive counter tools.

Rohan said...

Poolstick, you are right. If paladins can burst people down, then they must be immobile. Moves like this would not be a good idea.

But apparently Blizzard is moving away from the "burst them down" strategy, in which case, moves like this become necessary.

Plus, I just wanted to be able to charge on my paladin's warhorse.

Anonymous said...

a charge like ability without a stun/daze/imobilize effect doesn't work well as a gap closer in pvp, where people are running around like mad and you also have to account for latency.

Chrom said...

@ poolstick,

please bring something to the table next time. if you are so sure an intercept wouldnt work, maybe you feel another ability would work in its place? your comments showed now insight or creativity to remedy current underlying issues with the paladin class. blizzard is pretty much making paladins a
"warrior lite" with their homogenization of talents and abilities. An intercept ability would pretty much be right on par with the other changes blizz has made thus far. maybe if you played your paladin alt past level 8 you would know that.

Anonymous said...

Chrom...I play a warlock, and my only defense is to get the (especially ret) paladin away from me via fear or CoE, and keep them away or else they kill me. An intercept would be way too OP especially against clothies. There is all this talk about what's "wrong" with the paladin class right now and how we need to "fix" them. Back before TBC came out, we locks were "OP" too...but blizzard said (parphrasing here) "Don't worry about it, sure their dots are burning you down too quickly, but the spells are designed for level 70 gear, in which you"ll get a ton more stam to handle it". So people didn't worry about it so much, and just dealt with it until we all hit 70 and saw that the dots were actually not all that powerful (especially after the resil affecting dots nerf). I think the same thing is happening with ret paladins right now. I mean, is anyone who is actually in the beta and level 80 feeling as though ret is still ridiculously OP?

Poolstick said...

You are right, I don't play a pally, and I think we both agree than Blizzard should NOT be making pallies "Warrior lites" as you called them. So why are you agreeing that pallies should have a skill that homogenizes them even more?

Rohan said...

Because at some point you give up and just go with the flow. We have Whirlwind, Deep Wounds, MS-without-the-debuff, and Shield Slam now. May as well add Intercept.

(Also, I don't think you're getting the "mounted charge" awesomeness.)

Yeshua said...

@ Anonymous speaking to Chrom:

I believe you are right but the problem is that everyone and their mother is screaming NERF RET NOW in a battleground. I haven't beta tested at level 80 so take my insights with a rather large grain of salt but I'm willing to bet people aren't going to be getting bursted down in a few seconds when we're all running around with lord knows what resilience and 15-20K health. But since retribution is so "OP" for a meager 3 weeks prior to the expansion we have to castrate the class. I will concede the point that when Divine Storm was Holy damage we were doing the equivalent damage of the incredible Hulk on crystal meth but all this nonsense with forbearance is...well...a bit much to bear.

Now we no longer have the option to use our burst healing/dps (avenging wrath) in conjunction with our class-defining defensive capabilities (DP, DS) in a single engagement; we have to choose between the two and I don't know a paladin out there that's willing to forsake his/her bubble for a purgeable buff for a 20% increase damage/healing that lasts a few seconds. Especially with rogues and mages running around with a button that resets all their most powerful abilities, hehe.

Basically, while some tweaking was necessary, all these reductions to paladin abilities to counterbalance ret's burst potential have screwed up the class pretty badly. I played exclusively pvp-holy for two years and saw practically all my damage capabilities reduced dramatically (judgments) because of this. I just wish they would've left us the hell alone until we reached the level cap and adjusted accordingly.

There is at least one silver lining that comes readily to my mind, however, and it comes in the form of sweet, sweet irony. It brings a deliciously evil grin to my face to see rogues and resto druids crying for nerfs to us in battlegrounds. >:)

Fish said...

I think this ability would be great but not take away from what warriors do for a few reasons. Druids already get a similar ability to charge that stuns. I have to assume deathknights will have something similar which means paladins will be the only ones lacking. Even intercept by itself isnt as useful without hamstring (which paladins don't have). This isn't an ability to chase down fleeing enemies (which is not paladin-like), more one to open the fight and close distance. I can't speak to pvp usefulness because I don't pvp, but I see major utility without being disbalancing. . .

Brandon said...

I really like the mounted charge idea. Palies should have some other advantage while mounted besides the aura.

As for the regular charge , maybe make it differ from other charges in some way instead of charging right up to someone. If it was deeper in prot. a stun or some kind of snare would be nice.

Hope you are putting some of these ideas of yours on the forums. :)

N said...

What I was thinking that wouldn't be too OP would be a charge that would cause a knockdown of the opponent while mounted. Wouldn't that be a cool idea, as well as be affective? What else would happen if you charged someone with your horse? You bet they'd get knocked on their bum! So why not do this and give us the ability then to use our stuns etc while we still have range on our opponents. I think this is a definite win!

gt said...

Okay while a delicious idea... this reminds me of how Paladins said "hey ... Druids are getting CoH and Shammies are getting a HoT... um..." And then Blizzard said "we want healers to have their niches and not all be the same."

This anti-homogenization rule always only applies to Paladins. No way we will ever get a charge as long as the boomerang is still around. Ret would use it to avoid being kited and the nerf cries would begin again...

A mounted charge WOULD be super cool though because of the Charger being included more in the Paladin Flavor. I would even take a spell where our Charger comes out of nowhere and does a knockdown on any target in 15 yards of the Paladin. >.>

N said...

@ GT:

I can imagine it now, a split second cut screen to a cinematic, showing you mount up on your charger and blasting off to lay the smackdown on your opponent!